Russian pairs dominance @ Olympics - Can it continue? | Golden Skate

Russian pairs dominance @ Olympics - Can it continue?

FreeKatie

On the Ice
Joined
Nov 21, 2005
With the chinese nipping at their heels, do you think the Russians will be able to produce another winning team 4 years from now?

Are there any young Russian pairs worthy of passing the torch to?
 

CDMM1991

Medalist
Joined
Jun 3, 2005
Obertas and Slavnov have said that they plan to peak for the 2010 Games and carry on the streak, but at the moment I don't feel that they have the capacity to do so. They just don't have very good basics, and I'm not sure they will be the powerhouse that Berezhnaya and Sikhardlize and Totmianina and Marinin were before them.

As for the juniors, a pair named Valeria Simakova and Anton Tokarev won the Junior Grand Prix Final this year. So maybe that bodes well for the future?
 

rob43

On the Ice
Joined
Nov 1, 2005
Well the pipeline isn't as full as it once was. T/M grew tremendously in the past 3 years- concievably this was the Oly that would end the trend, This is the first quad in a while that hasn't seen maultiple Russian pairs in the medals at the Olys and Worlds.

I think the Chinese looked pretty stocked right now- and beleive it or not I think the US will be returning to medal contention in the next few years when some of our younder skaters mature/adapt to COP.

I won't count the Russians out though. They have the best pairs coaches in the business and that has to count for a lot.
 

slutskayafan21

Match Penalty
Joined
Mar 28, 2005
It will probably end at the next Olympics. If it is continued though it will be a team just out of juniors recently, or juniors now. No way will it be Obertas/Slavnov or a team that is not even a top junior team this year.
 

shdotz

On the Ice
Joined
Aug 3, 2003
Russian Pairs

FreeKatie said:
With the chinese nipping at their heels, do you think the Russians will be able to produce another winning team 4 years from now?

Are there any young Russian pairs worthy of passing the torch to?
______________________________________

I sure hope so. This year's pairs didn't really do it for me - too slow.

Pairs skate has been my favorite - with G&G at the top.

Then come the men. Or that used to be the way. Watching the short was disappointing save for Plushenko. He is the best. Can't wait for the long.

I think that all of this extra points thing is going to take another year or so to work itself into a good skate for all divisions.

But I still stay glued to the tube to see the skates despite those bloody hip-hopping around. I do tape the last 2 hours and watch the next morning.

shdotz
 

FreeKatie

On the Ice
Joined
Nov 21, 2005
I really wanna see another Bereshnaya & Shikeralidze, or Gordeeva & Grinkov type pair outta Russia - c'mon we're dying here with those cold fishes T&M!
 

Kwanford Wife

Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 29, 2004
I wouldn't be surprised if Russian pairs dominance at the Games ended for awhile, but at the same time I'm really looking forward to seeing the Chinese teams develop & grow.
 
Joined
Jul 11, 2003
They may have a new Pairs team for gold ready by 2010 full of the robotic moves to get more points but there will never be another B&S for years to come.

Joe
 

Ptichka

Forum translator
Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 28, 2003
slutskayafan21 said:
No way will it be Obertas/Slavnov or a team that is not even a top junior team this year.
Well, you never know. G&G won the '88 games, and in '84 they were only 5th at Junior Worlds, so you never know.

I do, however, agree with you general point. Moskvina's top two teams are O&S and Borzenkova & Chuviliayev, who really have no shined; the latter were only 5th at nationals. The two teams worth mentioning are Shestakova & Lebedev and Mukhortova & Trankov (Shestakova used to skate with Trankov, and Mukhortova with Lebedev). Both train with the Velikovs, who tend to produce nice but rather uninspiring teams - Petrova & Tikhonov, Shishkova & Naumov, etc. Both of those teams have done very well in juniors - the former won Jr. Worlds in 2004, the latter in 2005. The former were 5th at both their senior GP events this year, the latter were 4th and 7th. Whether either of those teams can rise to the top is anyone's guess.
 

Dee4707

Ice Is Slippery - Alexie Yagudin
Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 28, 2003
Country
United-States
Please correct my comment if it is wrong. In regard to Obertas and Slavnov, it seems like they have the skating skills to produce. I remember someone saying that Obertas is very difficult to work with. She has had maybe 3 partners who she thought were not good enough. Yet, with Slavnov she is the one who misses all the jumps. It seems to me like he is the better skater of the two. If Moskvina could somehow work her magic on the couple, I think they have a chance.

Dee
 

SusanBeth

Final Flight
Joined
Jul 28, 2003
I thought that I read somewhere that Moskvina was considering retiring. I am not sure where I read that though. It might be completely untrue. Has anyone read anything about it?
 

julietvalcouer

Final Flight
Joined
Sep 10, 2005
Oh, I hope it ends. I really do. Though I hope that Moskvina doesn't retire--her skaters at least know how to act graciously (paging Oleg Vasiliev, Miss Manners is calling...) But I think that the Chinese are rising. Just looking at the three teams they sent, they have incredible depth. Russia, on the other hand, seems to be missing some of their old dominance. I don't know about the US--pairs has never really been our thing. But I am increasingly a fan of Yao Bin and his stable of pairs, and I'm rather hoping to see China at the top of the podium four years from now.
 

mzheng

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 16, 2005
julietvalcouer said:
Oh, I hope it ends. I really do. Though I hope that Moskvina doesn't retire--her skaters at least know how to act graciously (paging Oleg Vasiliev, Miss Manners is calling...) But I think that the Chinese are rising. Just looking at the three teams they sent, they have incredible depth. Russia, on the other hand, seems to be missing some of their old dominance. I don't know about the US--pairs has never really been our thing. But I am increasingly a fan of Yao Bin and his stable of pairs, and I'm rather hoping to see China at the top of the podium four years from now.
Chinese don't really have the depth in pairs. Couple of years back, I read there were only 7 pairs in china. These top three are all under BinYao, and I'm afraid that's all they have it now. They have to develop new teams.

No worry, Russian will continue their dominance in O game. Maybe chinese will domimnante next couple of years after TT/MM and Piteck retiring after this game. But when next game around the cornner, RF has the power to lobby rules changes again in favore of whatever skill their top pair has then.
 

Callystarr

Rinkside
Joined
Sep 26, 2003
The Russians are dominating every event right now, but that looks to change very soon.

In the past the Russians have always had a "successor" to the previous Russian Champion in every discipline.

Lets look at some comparisons..

LADIES: (supposive successor in Parenthesis)
1994: No Competitor (Maria Butyrskaya by default)
1998: Maria Butyrskaya 3rd (Irina Slutskaya 5th)
2002: Irina Slutskaya 2nd (Viktoriya Volchkova 9th)
2006: Irina Slutskaya, Elena Sokolova, Victoriya Volchkova more than likely the LAST olympics for them all.

MEN:
1994: Alexei Urmanov 1st (Oleg Tautarov 11th)
1998: Ilia Kulik 1st (Alexei Yagudin 5th)
2002: Alexei Yagudin 1st (Evgeni Plushenko 2nd)
2006: Evgeni Plushenko also may retire but who knows, but who is left...Ilia Klimkin?

PAIRS
1994: Goordeeva/Grinkov 1st (Shishlova/Naumov 4th)
1998: Kazakova/Dmitriev 1st (Berezhnaya/Sikha 2nd)
2002: Berezhnaya/Sikha 1st (Tot/Marinin 4th)
2006: Totmianina/Marinin 1st (Obertas/Slavnov) have actually dropped from placements they have had in the past.



Yes there are some circumstances where you can have an Ilia Klimkin come out of nowhere...but it just doesn't happen that often. Russian Skating is more vulnerable than it has EVER been. Compared to some of the other countries, they are really vulnerable.


Most likely after the olympics....


Japanese men/women will be fine
American men/women/pairs/dance will all be fine (pairs if nam/partner stay) :)
Russian seem to be in danger in every discipline
Canadians pairs will be ok
Chinese pairs will be fine

I DO think this is the end of an era
 

STL_Blues_fan

Final Flight
Joined
Jan 24, 2004
I am not worried. Whether dominance continues or not. I see no reason why others are afraid of more Russian dominance. Give me artistic skating any day, I will be happy. Why are people are so biased? I enjoy skating in general, not just a single country skating.

How would you like if somebody started a thread " American ladies dominance at Olympics, can it continue?" I don't think a lot of Russians would be jumping in posting how much they hope it ends.

Klimkin has stated that he plans to stick around till 2010 and he is using Turin as an experience (the interview was given after he bombed the short, poor guy). I think Russia has a deep field of junior guys. Ladies is another story. I think pairs and dance will be ok. We are not seeing a lot internationally because the big guns make it to the world stage and youngsters stay home. Once the stars retire, there is always somebody who will step up.

4 years can make a big difference.

PS - Maria was not 3rd in 1994. Lu Chen won the bronze.
 

Vash01

Medalist
Joined
Jul 31, 2003
The Russian well seems to be drying up in all disciplines. In pairs and dance they have one or two possible top teams but they don't have an abundance of great skaters anymore. By contrast, other countries are developing better skaters than they did in the past (Chinese in pairs, USA in dance, Japan in ladies, US & Canada in men). After Plushenko's retirement there is no new star on the horizon. I don't see Klimkin (too many injuries), Dobrin or Griazev filling that void. Uspenski- if he develops- may, but it 's hard to tell right now.

There is no lady that is medal worthy after Irina's retirement. Viktoria is back from an injury but I don't see her as championship material.

I don't think the Russian pairs dominance will continue after the retirement of T&M (and Pet-Tik who were world champions in 2000). I just don't see Obertas & Slavnov filling that void. Mukhartova & Trankov are the reigning world junior pairs champions but they don't even look like a Russian pair in their skating. Unless the Russian fed does something special to get young kids interested and motivated to skate pairs, I don't think there will be a Russian pairs champion in 2010 Olympics.

Vash
 

JonnyCoop

Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 28, 2003
I think Russia will always have at least one top of the line pair for at least the next 2 or 3 Olympics to come. I think Obertas & Slavnov (or Obertas and possibly a new partner, given her record in this department) can carry them through 2010, and of course they have some prospects in the Junior department (tho, granted, this has a lot to do with the fact that only about 4 countries seem to be even competing in Junior Pairs anymore). And we should remember that in '94, no-one would have envisioned Bereznaja & Sikharulidze teaming up and becoming the Next Big Thing (and almost gold medallists) of '98. We've been hearing "Russia is dead, Russia is dead" in skating for many years now and it doesn't seem to be true yet.

I think the country to watch over the next 4 years, tho, in Pairs, is going to be CANADA -- and right in time for Vancouver '10. They have so much talent in this category now, and these pairs can only get better in the next 4 years. Plus, unlike the US, they seem to be able to put a new partnership together and get good results and good skating out of them in their first season. Russia might be able to put together a gold-medal worthy team and another top 5 team, but I think the days of their incredible depth in the category is over, even if their winning days aren't. China a couple of seasons ago had a couple of promising pairs in the pipeline, but they seem to have tapered off and I wonder even how long their overall strength in this category is going to continue; at this point, I certainly wouldn't bet on them to go 2-3-4 in Vancouver like they did the other night. And as for the US, the less said, the better.

re. the "Moskvina minute". Interesting how long that can take, tho. In the case of B/S, it took about 6 months. In the case of Ina & Zimmermann, it took about 3 1/2 years......
 

soogar

Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 18, 2003
rob43 said:
Well the pipeline isn't as full as it once was. T/M grew tremendously in the past 3 years- concievably this was the Oly that would end the trend, This is the first quad in a while that hasn't seen maultiple Russian pairs in the medals at the Olys and Worlds.

I think the Chinese looked pretty stocked right now- and beleive it or not I think the US will be returning to medal contention in the next few years when some of our younder skaters mature/adapt to COP.

I won't count the Russians out though. They have the best pairs coaches in the business and that has to count for a lot.

Who are the Chinese stocked with? The Zhangs are their main young team. No doubt they will hang around. Shen and Zhao should retire b/c they were on their last limb out there and Pang and Tong are up there as well. There's only so many pairs one Chinese coach can produce. At least the Russians have many good pairs coaches and their results at the past few junior worlds indicate that Russia is better stocked than China.
 
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