Dick's Diddies

[Frau Muller]

.....he also compared him [Plush] to someone...was it Fred Astaire? !

Yes -- Dick compared Plush to Astaire (to which I agree)! Dick has always been high on Pluschenko, except for the comment about Nijinsky coming out of his grave if he knew about the Nijinsky LP a couple of years ago!

I believe that Dick had to do a little 'trash-talking' about Plushenko only to appease the idiots sitting beside him in the commentating booth, who have always had it out against Russian skaters of any kind. In other words, Dick wanted to get out of the booth alive.

[Jasper]

Yes -- Dick compared Plush to Astaire (to which I agree)! Dick has always been high on Pluschenko, except for the comment about Nijinsky coming out of his grave if he knew about the Nijinsky LP a couple of years ago!

I believe that Dick had to do a little 'trash-talking' about Plushenko only to appease the idiots sitting beside him in the commentating booth, who have always had it out against Russian skaters of any kind. In other words, Dick wanted to get out of the booth alive.

I think Dick was just being honest. He's always been a fan of complete, artistic programs and those are not the programs that Plushenko delivers. And Scott Hamilton was praising Plushenko like crazy after his just-decent short, then finally he came to his senses after the just-decent LP and noted that Plushenko was severley lacking in choreography. I don't think any of the commentators sounded biased, they made fair and objective comments.

[SusanBeth]

Now, don't accuse Dick of being mealy mouthed or a hypocrite. In the 44 years that Button has been commentating, I don't think he has ever been known to hold back on his true opinion. You should check out Button's commentating the Cirque program at the GPF in 2001 (?).

Button has had many things to say about Plushenko's "applied" arm movements. I don't see how anyone could take Plushy's flailing frenzies seriously. He is a great athlete and deserved his win. However, IMO, Plushenko has the worst arms of any male champion that I have seen. Even the old stiff armed approach was better than all that flapping.

[merrywidow]

Confidence is sexy and sexy sells!

After watching "Olympic Ice" the other day when they showed Katarina Witt's 88 gold medal performance...that statement "sexy sells" is all too true. Since all she did was one triple jump and a bunch of posing..lol I guess the judges were so taken in by the sexy costume that they forgot about her empty program..lol [/QUOTE]


How many women back in 1988 do you think were capable of landing triple jumps? It was a different era & replaying Kat's win was a great example of how womens skating has evolved over the years. I will say, however, that no woman since has been able to portray a character on ice to match Katerina. (I tho't that Katerina landed a triple salchow & a triple toe but doubled her triple loop?)

[Jasper]

How many women back in 1988 do you think were capable of landing triple jumps? It was a different era & replaying Kat's win was a great example of how womens skating has evolved over the years. I will say, however, that no woman since has been able to portray a character on ice to match Katerina. (I tho't that Katerina landed a triple salchow & a triple toe but doubled her triple loop?)

That was the first time I had seen a woman's skate from the 80's and I was shocked. Skating sure has changed and evolved, as you said. The speed, the jumps, everything. Katarina barely made it around the rink once, I think. But she did interpret the music and played a character nicely.

[Mafke]

After watching "Olympic Ice" the other day when they showed Katarina Witt's 88 gold medal performance...that statement "sexy sells" is all too true. Since all she did was one triple jump and a bunch of posing..l...

How many women back in 1988 do you think were capable of landing triple jumps? ... (I tho't that Katerina landed a triple salchow & a triple toe but doubled her triple loop?)[/QUOTE]

If memory serves, Witt had five triples planned and did four (two toe-loops, two salchows, one of each had a double toe added on). She did double the loop.

Thomas had five triples also planned (same as Witts, but spaced differently she had a 3-3 planned, a very big deal then) but things didn't quite work out.

Manley did four different triples IIRC (no flip) but none in combination.

Ito did all five different triples being done then and did seven total in the lp which was pretty much unheard of at the time.

Don't ask me how I remember this, maybe because Calgary 88 was the first skating competition I taped.

[SusanBeth]

Most women in the 80's had triples. Elaine Zayak started that in 80 and 81. (Edited:I just meant the rush for more and more triples. Fratianne did a 2 triple program in 1976. ) She had the toe loop and salchow, but repeated them many times. That's the reason for the Zayak Rule.

I think Debi had done a 5 triple program to win US Nationals in ' 86. I believe she had a 5 triple program at 1987 worlds and Witt managed to top it by pulling out a very rare, for her, 3 loop. Manley did several triples including a great 3 Lutz, but with a long backward glide entrance. So, several triples were the norm.

I thought, in fact I can't believe, Witt did only one triple in 1988. I'll have to rewatch it later, but 1 triple wouldn't have gotten her anywhere.

Edited: Beat to the post again

[dorispulaski]

Give Elaine credit where credit is due:
She had a double axel triple toe and she also had a triple loop, but was much more inconsistent with it than the 3t and 3s. She did both triple toes and triple toe walleys, but now the jumps are counted as the same jump.

And she came back with the 3t, 3s, and 3lp in 1994 (she still wasn't consistent on the 3lp).

Biellman certainly landed the 3lz in 1981 when she won her world championship, and I believe she landed it in 1980 as well. Jill Trenary had a 3flip (inconsistent, but she did land it from time to time). And in 1988 Midori Ito gave one of the best women's 6.0 system technical skating programs I have ever seen.

[SusanBeth]

Give Elaine credit where credit is due:
She had a double axel triple toe and she also had a triple loop, but was much more inconsistent with it than the 3t and 3s. She did both triple toes and triple toe walleys, but now the jumps are counted as the same jump.

And she came back with the 3t, 3s, and 3lp in 1994 (she still wasn't consistent on the 3lp).

Biellman certainly landed the 3lz in 1981 when she won her world championship, and I believe she landed it in 1980 as well. Jill Trenary had a 3flip (inconsistent, but she did land it from time to time). And in 1988 Midori Ito gave one of the best women's 6.0 system technical skating programs I have ever seen.

Very true! She also had some interesting entrances into the jumps. I wasn't a real Zayak fan until 94 Nationals. That was heart way above the call ! Her artistry had matured very well too. She proved that she was a champion in my book.

[Linny]

And Elaine Zayak was within the rules as they stood at that time. Why fault her for taking advantage? Just like Jeff grabbed 5 points on a failed quad attempt - can't fault him either.

Linny

[equestrianguy]

How many women back in 1988 do you think were capable of landing triple jumps? It was a different era & replaying Kat's win was a great example of how womens skating has evolved over the years. I will say, however, that no woman since has been able to portray a character on ice to match Katerina. (I tho't that Katerina landed a triple salchow & a triple toe but doubled her triple loop?)[/QUOTE]

Maybe they didn't show the entire program. Although, Ms. Witt kept commenting on how slow she looked..lol 1988 is a little before I started watching TV since I was a wee lad.. I have seen clips from her two gold medal performances. I have to say she looked like a drag queen in 1988...maybe thats why I liked her so much...

[76olympics]

I remember 1988 very well and Liz Manley's performance was the shooting star that night. I think Witt and Thomas' efforts were palllid. Neither of them had the vibrance, the charisma or the technical fireworks that Liz had. We were jumping up and down at my house at the end of that performance. If she could have won gold, I would have been ecstatic!

[JonnyCoop]

That was the first time I had seen a woman's skate from the 80's and I was shocked. Skating sure has changed and evolved, as you said. The speed, the jumps, everything. Katarina barely made it around the rink once, I think. But she did interpret the music and played a character nicely.

That's not a good program to use an indicator of women's skating in the late 80s. Even "critics" (well, reporters, and people like us, pre-internet ) said at the time that there was a ridicolously low amount of actual skating activity going on in that program. Check out Debi Thomas, Liz Manley, and Midori Ito about the same time -- these ladies did not mess around out there.

[SusanBeth]

That's not a good program to use an indicator of women's skating in the late 80s. Even "critics" (well, reporters, and people like us, pre-internet ) said at the time that there was a ridicolously low amount of actual skating activity going on in that program. Check out Debi Thomas, Liz Manley, and Midori Ito about the same time -- these ladies did not mess around out there.

I remember yelling at the tv screen during Witt's skate. I was upset (I was very pregnant at the time. I don't usually get irate, just irritated.) I was remarking that she should skate or get off the ice. I was convinced the judges wouldn't buy it. Then, they bought it.

[Gipson]

Dick commenting on Kevin van der Perren's footwork, it was something like "Oh my! Look at the swash in that swashbuckling!"