Men's LP...play-by-play coverage/comments
- Thread starter Frau Muller
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- Joined
- Dec 27, 2005
CDMM1991 said:
Well, I doubt that that mistake alone made him loose the medal, but still, I would have loved to see him finish at least 5th so I could see him in the exhibition. I just love him..
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2003
I'm so glad someone else is not into the hype. Plush has super jumps and wild arm movements. Not much else, and choreograhy doesn't exist. JMOjan said:
Joe
- Joined
- Feb 5, 2004
Engwaciriel said:Well, I doubt that that mistake alone made him loose the medal, but still, I would have loved to see him finish at least 5th so I could see him in the exhibition. I just love him..
Apologies if this has already been put out there but i think there's been a bad mistake on the scoring.
It looks like the lutz wasn't counted beacuse of an incorrect application of the zayak rule.
Takahashi fell on the quad toe, complete the 3A/3T and then repeated the 3A and did a 3Lz/3T later on . Then the repeated 3Lz.
The quad toe was downgraded to a 3T and it looks like the computer spewed out that since the 3T was done twice and the 3A was done twice, he could not repeat the 3Lz.
Its my understanding of the various rule changes since CoP came into force that if a jump is downgraded it is counted as the downgraded jump for the purposes of teh attempt but it is not counted towards teh Zayak rule. I can't find the actual rule to support this so anyone who knows the rule i'm talking about please feel free to correct em if i'm wrong.
To my mind a huge injustice has occureed to Takahashi and he should be credited with the 3Lz with its relevant GOE and the 1.1 multiplier for it being late in the program.
Ant
I love plushenko, but I do agree about his programs, however, he is able to pull it off because he knows how to perform. I've seen him in person and back then his programs had a little more content, but either way he was very entertaining to watch.
The artistic mark doesn't seem to really be taken seriously by the judges - unless all the jumps are landed - so the more things change the more things stay the same. Savoie was the most artistic of the night and Evan's entire performance was magnificent. Not to mention Sean Sawyer - some originality!
Plushenko was still good b/c he had energy and he landed his jumps - Lambiel looked exhausted and not at his best, Weir also looked very tired and kind of out of it. Buttle was kinda messy but he used the COP to get on the podium - he must be taking notes from the romanian gymnasts!
The artistic mark doesn't seem to really be taken seriously by the judges - unless all the jumps are landed - so the more things change the more things stay the same. Savoie was the most artistic of the night and Evan's entire performance was magnificent. Not to mention Sean Sawyer - some originality!
Plushenko was still good b/c he had energy and he landed his jumps - Lambiel looked exhausted and not at his best, Weir also looked very tired and kind of out of it. Buttle was kinda messy but he used the COP to get on the podium - he must be taking notes from the romanian gymnasts!
- Joined
- Dec 27, 2005
A new theory about Takahashi, maybe it was a coup from Oda..didn't sort of the same thing happen for him, something with a downgraded jump and the zayak rule, which might have stopped him from going to the olympics...ok, I know I'm out of line, but not knowing is kiling me...
From Ice Skating International: Online
"Men's Final:
The dust has settled on the Men's event, and Russia is now 2 for 2 on the road to sweep the figure skating medals. Final attendance figure for the Men's final was 6,095.
Evgeni Plushenko certainly deserved his gold medal last night. He skated the cleanest and with the most confidence of any of the men. He is far and way the best technician among the men. Of all the men with quads, he has held on to them the longest and with most consistency. So many of the other men, once they land a quad, seem only able to hold on to it for about 18-24 months, then they seem to go away, and only visit the skaters occasionally.
But what about those pesky Program Components. All 8s for the winner??? Skating skills, yes. The boy can skate! But 8s for transitions? One judge had it near right going down to 6.25. Plushenko's program starts with SIX jump elements in a row. All stroking and crossovers between. That alone limits Transitions to the upper 6s or a 7, and only if the rest of the program was 100% transitions and only of those transitions were all difficult and of good quality -- which was not the case.
Plushenko, of course, was not unique in having his Transitions mark questionably connected to reality. Many of the men spend the first 1/3 of their program on jump elements, with no transitions (other than the opening posing). None of these guys should get a transition mark above the 6s.
Then there was Van Der Perrin, who skates with speed and energy and gets the crowd going, but for Transitions - nothing. His Transitions mark should be in the toilet most the time. But no. Like everyone else his marks track the element scores and the other Program Component scores whether he deserves it or not.
On the other hand, you had Shawn Sawyer and Matthew Savoie who had transitions form begging to end, nicely done. There Transitions marks don't reflect that strength at all.
Getting back to Plushenko. Performance. Yes, well done, good marks deserved here for sure.
Choreography, however, a joke. I don't know why this is judges at all. It's like deciding the score of a football game by judging the teams play book. But it is judges, and Plushenko's choreography? Where it not for his technical skill, his programs would put me into a coma they are so boring and so unrelated to the music, with wilds gestures that contribute nothing to the "story" (purpose of the program).
Which leads us to interpretation. What the heck did his Short Program have to do with Tosca; either the story or the mood of the music? And was their any shred of a connection of the free skate to The Godfather? Not for me. It was just so much background music to which he flails his arms in ways that offer nothing other than the demonstration he can keep his balance while convulsing down the ice.
Poor Johnny Weir. He didn't skate to win, and so he didn't. It usually turns out that way with that approach. The difference for him, was the miss on triple Axel (that was called a double), the missing jump element and just one jump combination. He would have gotten the bronze if he had just skated his program; no quad required. Weir and his coach, Priscilla Hill, also missed their bus getting to the arena, but afterwards he said it was not a factor in the results. Bottom line, he just had a lousy skate.
Evan Lysacek had a strong Free Skate and ended up fourth overall. While Weir missed the podium by freaking in the long, Lysacek missed the podium by freaking in short. Jeffrey Buttle, who also under performed in the Short Program, was able to move up for the bronze medal by attacking in the Free Skate. In opposite ways, Buttle and Weir were testaments to the cliché, "no guts, no glory." U.S. medal hopes in figure skating are now reduced to two.
Consistency in both programs (third in the short, fourth in the long) got Stephane Lambiel onto the podium where he wept like baby through the medal ceremony. He was 27 points back behind Plushenko, which illustrates how crushing a victory Plushenko delivered."
"Men's Final:
The dust has settled on the Men's event, and Russia is now 2 for 2 on the road to sweep the figure skating medals. Final attendance figure for the Men's final was 6,095.
Evgeni Plushenko certainly deserved his gold medal last night. He skated the cleanest and with the most confidence of any of the men. He is far and way the best technician among the men. Of all the men with quads, he has held on to them the longest and with most consistency. So many of the other men, once they land a quad, seem only able to hold on to it for about 18-24 months, then they seem to go away, and only visit the skaters occasionally.
But what about those pesky Program Components. All 8s for the winner??? Skating skills, yes. The boy can skate! But 8s for transitions? One judge had it near right going down to 6.25. Plushenko's program starts with SIX jump elements in a row. All stroking and crossovers between. That alone limits Transitions to the upper 6s or a 7, and only if the rest of the program was 100% transitions and only of those transitions were all difficult and of good quality -- which was not the case.
Plushenko, of course, was not unique in having his Transitions mark questionably connected to reality. Many of the men spend the first 1/3 of their program on jump elements, with no transitions (other than the opening posing). None of these guys should get a transition mark above the 6s.
Then there was Van Der Perrin, who skates with speed and energy and gets the crowd going, but for Transitions - nothing. His Transitions mark should be in the toilet most the time. But no. Like everyone else his marks track the element scores and the other Program Component scores whether he deserves it or not.
On the other hand, you had Shawn Sawyer and Matthew Savoie who had transitions form begging to end, nicely done. There Transitions marks don't reflect that strength at all.
Getting back to Plushenko. Performance. Yes, well done, good marks deserved here for sure.
Choreography, however, a joke. I don't know why this is judges at all. It's like deciding the score of a football game by judging the teams play book. But it is judges, and Plushenko's choreography? Where it not for his technical skill, his programs would put me into a coma they are so boring and so unrelated to the music, with wilds gestures that contribute nothing to the "story" (purpose of the program).
Which leads us to interpretation. What the heck did his Short Program have to do with Tosca; either the story or the mood of the music? And was their any shred of a connection of the free skate to The Godfather? Not for me. It was just so much background music to which he flails his arms in ways that offer nothing other than the demonstration he can keep his balance while convulsing down the ice.
Poor Johnny Weir. He didn't skate to win, and so he didn't. It usually turns out that way with that approach. The difference for him, was the miss on triple Axel (that was called a double), the missing jump element and just one jump combination. He would have gotten the bronze if he had just skated his program; no quad required. Weir and his coach, Priscilla Hill, also missed their bus getting to the arena, but afterwards he said it was not a factor in the results. Bottom line, he just had a lousy skate.
Evan Lysacek had a strong Free Skate and ended up fourth overall. While Weir missed the podium by freaking in the long, Lysacek missed the podium by freaking in short. Jeffrey Buttle, who also under performed in the Short Program, was able to move up for the bronze medal by attacking in the Free Skate. In opposite ways, Buttle and Weir were testaments to the cliché, "no guts, no glory." U.S. medal hopes in figure skating are now reduced to two.
Consistency in both programs (third in the short, fourth in the long) got Stephane Lambiel onto the podium where he wept like baby through the medal ceremony. He was 27 points back behind Plushenko, which illustrates how crushing a victory Plushenko delivered."
- Joined
- Mar 28, 2005
kyla2 said:
If you dont like my posts then put me on ignore. It is pretty simple to do. If my posts bother you that much and you choose to read them then suck it up, it is your problem.
So referring to a skaters perceived weakness, in your eyes, or an area that you believe them to be overmarked in is fine but for me it is not. :chorus:
Actually skaters that get ridiculously inflated scores are villifed by skating fans who feel they are, and I will continue to villify a skater who was obviously ridiculously overscored. They do deserve it.
If you really feel Evan has excellent spins I can see why you are so often confused on those occasions the judges give out scores that actually make sense, such as Asada's PCS scores.
The American men had better either improve or come up with some more dealmaking to win any medals in Vancouver. Of the current up and coming crop Lambiel, Buttle, Takahashi, and Oda are all superior to them on the merit of their overall skating, assuming fair judging of course, and Plushenko is still planning to stay around as well.
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2003
Cocomo - who wrote that piece from ISI. He/she must have had some showbiz experience or watched a lot of shows with choreographers keeping in line with the music. I get that mag and I will look forward to the review.cocomo said:
Joe
Joe......The piece was written by George S. Rossano who is currently in Torino. George has a PHD, figure skating judge and has written articles for the New York Times on the mathematics of the new judging system. His site: Ice Skating International: Online....... The Electronic Magazine of Competitive Ice Skating. A great resource for anything related to figure skating. Check out his article on.....How Many Clowns Can You fit in a Volkswagen?
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Joesitz said:
*laughing* but the others have much else: falling on the ice and stumbling.
Is getting up the ice a new part of choreography or belongs it to transitions?
Plushenko did not need this "much else" *g*
If somebody don´t want to see the strength of a skater he will never see it.
I love Evan Lysacek, I loved his LP, I loved last year's LP, I love watching him skate, I'm so happy he did so well in the LP and I would've loved to have seen him stay in 3rd. And that shot of him leaning onto his mom stole my heart forever.
But... it it ok for me to say I wish he'd stop telling everyone how courageous he is? Maybe if he just told the story, someone else would have a chance to say it.
But... it it ok for me to say I wish he'd stop telling everyone how courageous he is? Maybe if he just told the story, someone else would have a chance to say it.
Joesitz said:
I felt the same way, and I think Dick said something to the same effect. I was awe-struck four years ago watching Alexei, but this time the gold medalist did not make me feel wow'ed at all. That said, though, I thought his performance was good enough to win it (with others struggling) even if that was not the program I enjoyed the most.
- Joined
- Mar 28, 2005
EvanLysacekFan said:
Somebody who calls himself EvanLysacekFan complaining about another skater being overscored. The absolute nerve!!!! :chorus: :chorus:
- Joined
- Mar 28, 2005
I read an article on a Japanese site that is very upset about Takahashi's scores. I am going to try and find it again, it was interesting.
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