Evan Lysacek obviously a much better spinners than Stephane Lambiel, judges say so! | Page 2 | Golden Skate

Evan Lysacek obviously a much better spinners than Stephane Lambiel, judges say so!

nicole_l

Final Flight
Joined
Oct 28, 2004
slutskayafan21 said:
Apparently Evan Lysacek is a better spinner than Stephane Lambiel. Evan scored 13.72 in his free program for his spins, and Stephane only 12.76. What a total farce, and it just shows what I am constantly saying about how embarassingly overmarked Evan is. An average spinner in the World outscoring the best male spinner. It must be crushing to him that even with such embarassing overscoring he still is not good enough to get ont the podium.
Interesting...
Then again I haven't seen Lambiel skate yet, but that doesn't seem right at all.
 

freelanceslacker

Spectator
Joined
Oct 20, 2005
Lambiel may be faster (although he wasn't near as fast as usual), but I think Lysacek's spin positions are better. Maybe it's because his legs are so long that his positions look striking- the geek in me wonders how this effects his centripetal force, perhaps he gets handicap points for it ;)
 

machiavelli

Rinkside
Joined
Jan 19, 2006
I personally like Lambiel as a spinner, but Evan's not bad. He gets really low to the ice and has a good extension on his long leg.
 

FreeKatie

On the Ice
Joined
Nov 21, 2005
what about component scores?

Joubert's should have been a big fat zero.

Matt Savoie's should have been higher...

the judging system is a mess, let's face it. It's still all about who can land all the jumps. Plushy is the only guy out there who seems to be able to handle the pressure ... to the victor go the spoils!
 

soogar

Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 18, 2003
Antilles said:
I've seen the coverage on French CBC. They didn't show Lysacek, but I can say that Buttle's and Lambiel's spins were not up to their usual par, particularly Lambiel. Lambiel's last spin was decent, but all of the others were slower than nromal, and he did a bit of travelling. Buttle was also much slower than he can be. It is possible than Lysacek had better spins tonight. I'd suggest waiting for the coverage before crying foul.

Evan and Joubert had the best spins of the night. Like you said about Lambiel and Buttle.
 
Joined
Jul 11, 2003
Evan's LP was the skate of his life. If he can build on that, we will be seeing him as a gold contender in many competitions to come.

Stephane is still suffering with the knee problem. Having been there, I know what it means. Not good news.

Buttle was ok but he should be doing better. He's been on the senior circuit longer than Evan.

Johnny - all that talk and no play.

Brian ?? is he going the way of Tim?

Shwawn - Wave of the future, definitely.

Eman - Well........ what a waste of talent.

Plushenko - For me, his jumps are superlative, but his cautious approach to them do not promote good flow. The spins are weak and he can not get down into sitsspin. He has blazing footwork but mostly with the use of his arms. Lambiel's footwork was much much much better as was Lambiel's choreograhy.
Plushenko works well with the CoP and his sole popularity is with jumps and constant arm movements. He is not musicl. JMO

Joe
 

Vash01

Medalist
Joined
Jul 31, 2003
Lambiel is normally a great spinner but not yesterday. His spins were much slower than usual. Evan had great energy and that could have translated into better spins this time.

Vash
 

jan

On the Ice
Joined
Nov 21, 2004
Lysack had great positions in his spins as did Buttle. Lambiel as well as Joubert had fast spins but they lacked variety.
I miss seeing great camel spins. Most of the men stuck to sit positions as it is easier to change edges and do spin variations from them.
 

carol45

Rinkside
Joined
Oct 27, 2003
Lambiel's spins

Yes, his spins were slow last night but everybody was slow. It was the Olympics!

Somebody said that Stephane can't hold a position long enough. Hello! The scording system does not allow you to hold positions long enough...you have to rush on to the next contortion and then the next and the overall beauty of a good, centered spin with maybe one variation is out the window. It makes me sick!

Notice that the only time you see Stephane do the kinds of spins he did three years ago is in warmups. He goes into the center of the ice, winds up and what you see is incredible! It brings down the house!

But he can't do this in his program because it isn't "difficult" enough. Enough said...in terms of spins this new system totally stinks.

I guess all you have to do to win a gold medal is throw yourself from one end of the rink doing little else than jumping, wave your arms frantically around, toss your head, glare at the judges, do a couple of slow "squat" spins...and you are on top of the world.

Somebody better start fixing what is wrong with the system soon because it is killing the sport right now.
 
Joined
Jul 11, 2003
jan said:
I miss seeing great camel spins. Most of the men stuck to sit positions as it is easier to change edges and do spin variations from them.
For beautiful male camel spins, check out Klimkin if you have a tape. Perfection! and in both directions.

With the exception of Shawn and Klimkin, I don't think the current crop of male skaters are flexible enough, and that maybe the reason they play on the sitspin instead of the camel. Even Lambiel's camel is not held long enough.

Now, if some of them could get down down down in the sitspin, that would make me give a +3.

Joe
 

slutskayafan21

Match Penalty
Joined
Mar 28, 2005
Vash01 said:
Lambiel is normally a great spinner but not yesterday. His spins were much slower than usual. Evan had great energy and that could have translated into better spins this time.

Vash

It is funny whenever I point out the best spinners getting much lower scores than the worst spinners among the top 10 fans come up with the same excuses "usually it is that way, but this time......" Well I could post the scores all year on spins, at EVERY competition the worst spinners like Plushenko, Lysacek, and Joubert get higher scores for their spins than the best like Lambiel and Buttle. The fact people can so easily manipulate the proof in the viewers eyes just shows how easy it is for the judges to be doing it.
 

FreeKatie

On the Ice
Joined
Nov 21, 2005
slutskayafan21 said:
It is funny whenever I point out the best spinners getting much lower scores than the worst spinners among the top 10 fans come up with the same excuses "usually it is that way, but this time......" Well I could post the scores all year on spins, at EVERY competition the worst spinners like Plushenko, Lysacek, and Joubert get higher scores for their spins than the best like Lambiel and Buttle. The fact people can so easily manipulate the proof in the viewers eyes just shows how easy it is for the judges to be doing it.


Dick Button has commented on this before - ugly spins with lots of position changes get the points, beautiful fast unique spins do not. the COP sucks.
 

Engwaciriel

On the Ice
Joined
Dec 27, 2005
carol45 said:
Somebody said that Stephane can't hold a position long enough. Hello! The scording system does not allow you to hold positions long enough...you have to rush on to the next contortion and then the next and the overall beauty of a good, centered spin with maybe one variation is out the window. It makes me sick!

Well, u do have to hold the position at least 2 turns, or else it doesn't count, and I'm not completely sure Lambiel did that in all his positions..

I guess all you have to do to win a gold medal is throw yourself from one end of the rink doing little else than jumping, wave your arms frantically around, toss your head, glare at the judges, do a couple of slow "squat" spins...and you are on top of the world.

Yeah, that and practise 23 hours each week...I mean anyone can go out on the ice and do that..no problem at all...I think I'm gonna go to the next olympics, I know how to wave my arms frantically. I've always wanted to win an OGM..
 

Jasper

Final Flight
Joined
Dec 29, 2005
I thought Buttle's and Takahashi's spins were the best and crispest last night. Lambiel had a very poor and slow spinning week at the Olympics - the worst I've ever seen from him.
 

slutskayafan21

Match Penalty
Joined
Mar 28, 2005
FreeKatie said:
Dick Button has commented on this before - ugly spins with lots of position changes get the points, beautiful fast unique spins do not. the COP sucks.

Perfectly said, thank you. :bow:
 

Kwanford Wife

Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 29, 2004
slutskayafan21 said:
Perfectly said, thank you. :bow:

Yes, it was perfectly said, however, most don't want to hear it... for what ever reason, if you don't think that CoP is the best thing EVER, you're negative, bizarre, too old, whatever... Its sad. We won't be able to have a serious conversation about the true pros & cons of this system until the summer when people aren't so crazed by the Olympics...
 

slutskayafan21

Match Penalty
Joined
Mar 28, 2005
Kwanford Wife said:
Yes, it was perfectly said, however, most don't want to hear it... for what ever reason, if you don't think that CoP is the best thing EVER, you're negative, bizarre, too old, whatever... Its sad. We won't be able to have a serious conversation about the true pros & cons of this system until the summer when people aren't so crazed by the Olympics...

Hopefully the post-Olympic period that you referred to will give the ISU some time to look over, determine changes to make, and improve the system.

It is sad that people are willing to be so naive to everything the system represents, even when breaking down the point totals, alot of the areas of scores do not reflect the specific abililties of the skater.
 

Kwanford Wife

Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 29, 2004
slutskayafan21 said:
It is sad that people are willing to be so naive to everything the system represents, even when breaking down the point totals, alot of the areas of scores do not reflect the specific abililties of the skater.

But why is this? Is the new "lemming law" that if you disagree with the system & how its applied you instantly become labled negative or skater hater? I've been a fan of skating for years and can tell the difference between a 5.8/5.7 program vs and a 200 point vs. 185 point program (here's a hint, they're the same...) however the WAY the judges are getting to the scores is the issue... And the accoutablity, which has always been suspect..., is totally gone.

The tipping point, as aways, will be the IOC and its reaction to this year's games, based on negative coverage, ratings, sponsorship dollars, etc. After SLC the ISU put a bandaid on a gun shot wound... let's see what happens this time around....
 

dutchherder

Final Flight
Joined
Feb 17, 2006
Lambiel not showing his best

Um, I didn't think Lambiel's spins looked that great last night. Usually, YES, he's a fantastic spinner, but last night he looked slow, and his positions weren't as good as they usually are. I thought Evan's spins were decent last night.

All in all, I'd rather see a good, old-fashioned, blurry scratch spin than all the awkward spins packed with positions that make the men look as though they've survived a trash compactor accident. :boohoo:
 
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