Evan Lysacek obviously a much better spinners than Stephane Lambiel, judges say so! | Page 3 | Golden Skate

Evan Lysacek obviously a much better spinners than Stephane Lambiel, judges say so!

merrywidow

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 20, 2004
I'm curious as to what level the different spins of various skaters were called? I seem to recall hearing that some of Lambiel's spins are only level 1 or 2. Could the level of the spin have something to do with the marks?
 

Kasey

Medalist
Joined
Jul 27, 2003
Heaven forbid someone actually look at the protocols, as to WHY Lysacek got higher spin scores than Lambiel:

Lysacek:

FcSSp4 ... GOE 0.5
FSSp4 .... GOE 0.5
CCoSp3 ... GOE 0.36
CCoSp3 ... GOE 0.36

Lambiel:

CCoSp3 ...GOE 0.57
FCoSp2 ... GOE 0.43
FSSp3 ... GOE 0.36
CCoSp3 ... GOE 1.00

Lysacek got a total GOE of +1.72. Lambiel's total GOE is +2.36. If Lambiel would upgrade his spins, he would have scored higher on the total spin score. But 2 level 4 spins and 2 level 3 spins will outscore (if not fallen on) 3 level 3's and a level 2. It's just the math. No freaking judging controversy here, just plain math.

Heck, and I'm not even a fan of Lysacek.
 

Engwaciriel

On the Ice
Joined
Dec 27, 2005
merrywidow said:
I'm curious as to what level the different spins of various skaters were called? I seem to recall hearing that some of Lambiel's spins are only level 1 or 2. Could the level of the spin have something to do with the marks?

The ones with the most difficult spins were Plushenko, Buttle, Lysacek and actually Kristoffer Berntsson :)clap: )..they all had two level 4 and two level 3...Lambiel had three level 3 and 1 level 2..
 

slutskayafan21

Match Penalty
Joined
Mar 28, 2005
Kasey said:
Heaven forbid someone actually look at the protocols, as to WHY Lysacek got higher spin scores than Lambiel:

Lysacek:

FcSSp4 ... GOE 0.5
FSSp4 .... GOE 0.5
CCoSp3 ... GOE 0.36
CCoSp3 ... GOE 0.36

Lambiel:

CCoSp3 ...GOE 0.57
FCoSp2 ... GOE 0.43
FSSp3 ... GOE 0.36
CCoSp3 ... GOE 1.00

Lysacek got a total GOE of +1.72. Lambiel's total GOE is +2.36. If Lambiel would upgrade his spins, he would have scored higher on the total spin score. But 2 level 4 spins and 2 level 3 spins will outscore (if not fallen on) 3 level 3's and a level 2. It's just the math. No freaking judging controversy here, just plain math.

Heck, and I'm not even a fan of Lysacek.

Lysacek should not be scoring anywhere near Lambiel in GOE on spins, so spin scoring and spin rules are still horrable and flawed. First of all your GOE should not be halved like they currently are. Secondly the GOE should be judged right, the best spinners should get alot of +2 and +3 for their spins if done to their potential, the average or below spinners should get mostly 0s, some -1s, and only the odd -1 for their GOE on spins. If to get below 0 for GOE requires a mistake, then an average spin to the the worst quality spin getting the same GOE, a 0 should be the rule of thumb, it is still more fair than an average spin getting the same GOE scores as the above average spins. I get the impression the judges will never give out a 3 for GOE, and only a very poor spin gets 0s on GOE, so they just mix everybody with +1 and +2s which gives everybody almost the same GOE scores, and it only comes down to levels, eg-who does uglier spins. It is proposterous.

If spin scoring was revised in that way than somebody like Lysacek would be 8 or 9 points below Lambiel in GOE scores on spins in the long, and 6 or 7 in the short like he should be! Instead they gain almost the same points on GOE for spins even though Lambiel's spins put Lysacek's to shame. If Lambiel was an American or Russian he would probably get only +3 on his spins(keeping in mind if was an American or Russian he would get inflated scores).
 
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Gipson

Rinkside
Joined
Jan 22, 2004
Am I one of the few who doesn't find Lambiel to be that great of a spinner? Yes, he is usually fast but he doesn't have the best positions and travels more often than one would expect from someone who is noted for spinning.
 

sk8fanconvert

On the Ice
Joined
Sep 21, 2003
Kasey said:
Heaven forbid someone actually look at the protocols, as to WHY Lysacek got higher spin scores than Lambiel:
:thumbsup: It's refreshing to see someone base their point in evidence. Thanks, I hadn't actually looked at the protocols yet.
 

shine

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 27, 2003
The skater who had the BEST spins with speed, centering and position, was MATT SAVOIE.
 

Tonichelle

Idita-Rock-n-Roll
Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 27, 2003
Gipson said:
Am I one of the few who doesn't find Lambiel to be that great of a spinner? Yes, he is usually fast but he doesn't have the best positions and travels more often than one would expect from someone who is noted for spinning.

I think he's a decent spinner, but he doesn't blow me away... though he is incredibly fast when he doesn't travel...
 

merrywidow

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 20, 2004
Thank you Kasey (& others) for explaining the protocols. I'm too old & lazy to try & understand them but I do feel it is more important for people such as yourself to post those explanations & help educate everyone as to the "why" skaters received these marks rather than read a poster who simply rants because they enjoy stirring things up. :agree:
 

sk8addict

On the Ice
Joined
Oct 22, 2004
Lambs spins

Antilles said:
I've seen the coverage on French CBC. They didn't show Lysacek, but I can say that Buttle's and Lambiel's spins were not up to their usual par, particularly Lambiel. Lambiel's last spin was decent, but all of the others were slower than nromal, and he did a bit of travelling. Buttle was also much slower than he can be. It is possible than Lysacek had better spins tonight. I'd suggest waiting for the coverage before crying foul.
I thought Lambs spins were off as well. I wondered why he wasn't doing more spins than he did since they are usually level 4s. I thought for sure there were more & better spins in the grand prix programs.
 

peachy

Rinkside
Joined
Jan 25, 2006
if you add up the base values for the spins you get:

Plushenko: 11.6
Buttle: 10.8
Lysacek: 12.0
Lambiel: 10.4

The base values of Lysacek's spins were 1.2 points higher than Buttle, and 1.6 points higher than Lambiel, which explains why Lysacek got more points on his spins!
 
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