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Thread: Evan Lysacek obviously a much better spinners than Stephane Lambiel, judges say so!

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kwanford Wife
    My bad... so sorry... were you Jenny Kirk's boyfriend before Evan?

    And you are always entertaining... Anywho... I'm trying to decipher your spin criteria, but remain confused... Are the points accurate or an example of how the spins aren't being judged properly? Or a personal bias? I ask because Irina's spins rack up points because of the catch foot position, giving her the option of pimping the system... But Evan's spins don't contain the "wow" factor, so why are his higher than say Lambiel? I'm not a fan of Lambiel, but his spins ARE a beautiful thing... What piece of the scoring am I missing or is it truly up to the descrition of the callers / judges?

    I'm going to figure out this system if its the last thing I do...
    Honestly there are alot of problems with scoring on spins:

    1)The judges dont even give GOE scores properly. Often mediocre spins get higher GOE scores than the best spins.

    2)The critieria for difficultly of your spins is wierd and not reflective of true spinning ability.

    3)The GOE scores are minimized so even if they scored GOE correctly the points would not account for much.



    I am a big Irina fan but I dont like her racking up points by doing just fairly well done Biellmans(at best)over and over. I actually liked her spins better under the old system. The new system has killed spins, they are worthless now, it is crazy.

    I bet if Lucinda Ruh was skating today she would get outscored on her spins by Katy Taylor and Emily Hughes.

  2. #17
    Yeah! Lets get this party started. enlight78's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by slutskayafan21
    Honestly there are alot of problems with scoring on spins:

    1)The judges dont even give GOE scores properly. Often mediocre spins get higher GOE scores than the best spins.

    2)The critieria for difficultly of your spins is wierd and not reflective of true spinning ability.

    3)The GOE scores are minimized so even if they scored GOE correctly the points would not account for much.



    I am a big Irina fan but I dont like her racking up points by doing just fairly well done Biellmans(at best)over and over. I actually liked her spins better under the old system. The new system has killed spins, they are worthless now, it is crazy.

    I bet if Lucinda Ruh was skating today she would get outscored on her spins by Katy Taylor and Emily Hughes.
    It's just sad.:boohoo:

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by enlight78
    It's just sad.:boohoo:
    I agree. *sighs*. If they dont have a system that rewards all these key areas, not just some of them but all of them correctly, jumps, spins, footwork, and of coruse overall presentation, than they should just chuck this system and go back to the old one. When the worlds two best spinners are losing points to the 2 worst spinners in the top 10 at every single event how is the system effective to reward the best all around skating? The answer is it is not.

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by slutskayafan21
    I agree. *sighs*. If they dont have a system that rewards all these key areas, not just some of them but all of them correctly, jumps, spins, footwork, and of coruse overall presentation, than they should just chuck this system and go back to the old one. When the worlds two best spinners are losing points to the 2 worst spinners in the top 10 at every single event how is the system effective to reward the best all around skating? The answer is it is not.
    Go back to the old system? like that was any more fair..and actually, Lambiel don't spin as good now as he used to do..and I think he's problem might be that he don't hold the positions long enough.

    Just checked the protocoll, together with Plushenko and Buttle, Kristoffer Berntsson actually has the most difficult spins. Two level 4 and two level 3..way to go Kris!

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Engwaciriel
    Go back to the old system? like that was any more fair..and actually, Lambiel don't spin as good now as he used to do..and I think he's problem might be that he don't hold the positions long enough.

    Just checked the protocoll, together with Plushenko and Buttle, Kristoffer Berntsson actually has the most difficult spins. Two level 4 and two level 3..way to go Kris!
    Yes the old system was more far. Under the old system Irina would have probably been 6th or 7th in the short program at Worlds last year were she had two obvious mistakes, and as much as I love Irina, that would have seemed more far to the casual skating fan, and even alot of the more knowledgable ones, than how it was, which was her still coming 1st which under the new system was not a big controversy.

  6. #21
    It's all about Plushenko.
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    Quote Originally Posted by slutskayafan21
    Apparently Evan Lysacek is a better spinner than Stephane Lambiel. Evan scored 13.72 in his free program for his spins, and Stephane only 12.76. What a total farce, and it just shows what I am constantly saying about how embarassingly overmarked Evan is. An average spinner in the World outscoring the best male spinner. It must be crushing to him that even with such embarassing overscoring he still is not good enough to get ont the podium.
    Interesting...
    Then again I haven't seen Lambiel skate yet, but that doesn't seem right at all.

  7. #22
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    Lambiel may be faster (although he wasn't near as fast as usual), but I think Lysacek's spin positions are better. Maybe it's because his legs are so long that his positions look striking- the geek in me wonders how this effects his centripetal force, perhaps he gets handicap points for it

  8. #23
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    I personally like Lambiel as a spinner, but Evan's not bad. He gets really low to the ice and has a good extension on his long leg.

  9. #24
    Ryan Bradley makes me leak!
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    :sheesh:

  10. #25
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    what about component scores?

    Joubert's should have been a big fat zero.

    Matt Savoie's should have been higher...

    the judging system is a mess, let's face it. It's still all about who can land all the jumps. Plushy is the only guy out there who seems to be able to handle the pressure ... to the victor go the spoils!

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Antilles
    I've seen the coverage on French CBC. They didn't show Lysacek, but I can say that Buttle's and Lambiel's spins were not up to their usual par, particularly Lambiel. Lambiel's last spin was decent, but all of the others were slower than nromal, and he did a bit of travelling. Buttle was also much slower than he can be. It is possible than Lysacek had better spins tonight. I'd suggest waiting for the coverage before crying foul.
    Evan and Joubert had the best spins of the night. Like you said about Lambiel and Buttle.

  12. #27
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    Evan's LP was the skate of his life. If he can build on that, we will be seeing him as a gold contender in many competitions to come.

    Stephane is still suffering with the knee problem. Having been there, I know what it means. Not good news.

    Buttle was ok but he should be doing better. He's been on the senior circuit longer than Evan.

    Johnny - all that talk and no play.

    Brian ?? is he going the way of Tim?

    Shwawn - Wave of the future, definitely.

    Eman - Well........ what a waste of talent.

    Plushenko - For me, his jumps are superlative, but his cautious approach to them do not promote good flow. The spins are weak and he can not get down into sitsspin. He has blazing footwork but mostly with the use of his arms. Lambiel's footwork was much much much better as was Lambiel's choreograhy.
    Plushenko works well with the CoP and his sole popularity is with jumps and constant arm movements. He is not musicl. JMO

    Joe

  13. #28
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    Lambiel is normally a great spinner but not yesterday. His spins were much slower than usual. Evan had great energy and that could have translated into better spins this time.

    Vash

  14. #29
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    Lysack had great positions in his spins as did Buttle. Lambiel as well as Joubert had fast spins but they lacked variety.
    I miss seeing great camel spins. Most of the men stuck to sit positions as it is easier to change edges and do spin variations from them.

  15. #30
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    Lambiel's spins

    Yes, his spins were slow last night but everybody was slow. It was the Olympics!

    Somebody said that Stephane can't hold a position long enough. Hello! The scording system does not allow you to hold positions long enough...you have to rush on to the next contortion and then the next and the overall beauty of a good, centered spin with maybe one variation is out the window. It makes me sick!

    Notice that the only time you see Stephane do the kinds of spins he did three years ago is in warmups. He goes into the center of the ice, winds up and what you see is incredible! It brings down the house!

    But he can't do this in his program because it isn't "difficult" enough. Enough said...in terms of spins this new system totally stinks.

    I guess all you have to do to win a gold medal is throw yourself from one end of the rink doing little else than jumping, wave your arms frantically around, toss your head, glare at the judges, do a couple of slow "squat" spins...and you are on top of the world.

    Somebody better start fixing what is wrong with the system soon because it is killing the sport right now.

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