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Thread: Evan Lysacek obviously a much better spinners than Stephane Lambiel, judges say so!

  1. #31
    Custom Title Joesitz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jan
    I miss seeing great camel spins. Most of the men stuck to sit positions as it is easier to change edges and do spin variations from them.
    For beautiful male camel spins, check out Klimkin if you have a tape. Perfection! and in both directions.

    With the exception of Shawn and Klimkin, I don't think the current crop of male skaters are flexible enough, and that maybe the reason they play on the sitspin instead of the camel. Even Lambiel's camel is not held long enough.

    Now, if some of them could get down down down in the sitspin, that would make me give a +3.

    Joe

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vash01
    Lambiel is normally a great spinner but not yesterday. His spins were much slower than usual. Evan had great energy and that could have translated into better spins this time.

    Vash
    It is funny whenever I point out the best spinners getting much lower scores than the worst spinners among the top 10 fans come up with the same excuses "usually it is that way, but this time......" Well I could post the scores all year on spins, at EVERY competition the worst spinners like Plushenko, Lysacek, and Joubert get higher scores for their spins than the best like Lambiel and Buttle. The fact people can so easily manipulate the proof in the viewers eyes just shows how easy it is for the judges to be doing it.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by slutskayafan21
    It is funny whenever I point out the best spinners getting much lower scores than the worst spinners among the top 10 fans come up with the same excuses "usually it is that way, but this time......" Well I could post the scores all year on spins, at EVERY competition the worst spinners like Plushenko, Lysacek, and Joubert get higher scores for their spins than the best like Lambiel and Buttle. The fact people can so easily manipulate the proof in the viewers eyes just shows how easy it is for the judges to be doing it.

    Dick Button has commented on this before - ugly spins with lots of position changes get the points, beautiful fast unique spins do not. the COP sucks.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by carol45
    Somebody said that Stephane can't hold a position long enough. Hello! The scording system does not allow you to hold positions long enough...you have to rush on to the next contortion and then the next and the overall beauty of a good, centered spin with maybe one variation is out the window. It makes me sick!
    Well, u do have to hold the position at least 2 turns, or else it doesn't count, and I'm not completely sure Lambiel did that in all his positions..

    I guess all you have to do to win a gold medal is throw yourself from one end of the rink doing little else than jumping, wave your arms frantically around, toss your head, glare at the judges, do a couple of slow "squat" spins...and you are on top of the world.
    Yeah, that and practise 23 hours each week...I mean anyone can go out on the ice and do that..no problem at all...I think I'm gonna go to the next olympics, I know how to wave my arms frantically. I've always wanted to win an OGM..

  5. #35
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    I thought Buttle's and Takahashi's spins were the best and crispest last night. Lambiel had a very poor and slow spinning week at the Olympics - the worst I've ever seen from him.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by FreeKatie
    Dick Button has commented on this before - ugly spins with lots of position changes get the points, beautiful fast unique spins do not. the COP sucks.
    Perfectly said, thank you.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by slutskayafan21
    Perfectly said, thank you.
    Yes, it was perfectly said, however, most don't want to hear it... for what ever reason, if you don't think that CoP is the best thing EVER, you're negative, bizarre, too old, whatever... Its sad. We won't be able to have a serious conversation about the true pros & cons of this system until the summer when people aren't so crazed by the Olympics...

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kwanford Wife
    Yes, it was perfectly said, however, most don't want to hear it... for what ever reason, if you don't think that CoP is the best thing EVER, you're negative, bizarre, too old, whatever... Its sad. We won't be able to have a serious conversation about the true pros & cons of this system until the summer when people aren't so crazed by the Olympics...
    Hopefully the post-Olympic period that you referred to will give the ISU some time to look over, determine changes to make, and improve the system.

    It is sad that people are willing to be so naive to everything the system represents, even when breaking down the point totals, alot of the areas of scores do not reflect the specific abililties of the skater.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by slutskayafan21
    It is sad that people are willing to be so naive to everything the system represents, even when breaking down the point totals, alot of the areas of scores do not reflect the specific abililties of the skater.
    But why is this? Is the new "lemming law" that if you disagree with the system & how its applied you instantly become labled negative or skater hater? I've been a fan of skating for years and can tell the difference between a 5.8/5.7 program vs and a 200 point vs. 185 point program (here's a hint, they're the same...) however the WAY the judges are getting to the scores is the issue... And the accoutablity, which has always been suspect..., is totally gone.

    The tipping point, as aways, will be the IOC and its reaction to this year's games, based on negative coverage, ratings, sponsorship dollars, etc. After SLC the ISU put a bandaid on a gun shot wound... let's see what happens this time around....

  10. #40
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    Lambiel not showing his best

    Um, I didn't think Lambiel's spins looked that great last night. Usually, YES, he's a fantastic spinner, but last night he looked slow, and his positions weren't as good as they usually are. I thought Evan's spins were decent last night.

    All in all, I'd rather see a good, old-fashioned, blurry scratch spin than all the awkward spins packed with positions that make the men look as though they've survived a trash compactor accident. :boohoo:

  11. #41
    Custom Title merrywidow's Avatar
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    I'm curious as to what level the different spins of various skaters were called? I seem to recall hearing that some of Lambiel's spins are only level 1 or 2. Could the level of the spin have something to do with the marks?

  12. #42
    Skating Freak Barbie
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    Heaven forbid someone actually look at the protocols, as to WHY Lysacek got higher spin scores than Lambiel:

    Lysacek:

    FcSSp4 ... GOE 0.5
    FSSp4 .... GOE 0.5
    CCoSp3 ... GOE 0.36
    CCoSp3 ... GOE 0.36

    Lambiel:

    CCoSp3 ...GOE 0.57
    FCoSp2 ... GOE 0.43
    FSSp3 ... GOE 0.36
    CCoSp3 ... GOE 1.00

    Lysacek got a total GOE of +1.72. Lambiel's total GOE is +2.36. If Lambiel would upgrade his spins, he would have scored higher on the total spin score. But 2 level 4 spins and 2 level 3 spins will outscore (if not fallen on) 3 level 3's and a level 2. It's just the math. No freaking judging controversy here, just plain math.

    Heck, and I'm not even a fan of Lysacek.

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by merrywidow
    I'm curious as to what level the different spins of various skaters were called? I seem to recall hearing that some of Lambiel's spins are only level 1 or 2. Could the level of the spin have something to do with the marks?
    The ones with the most difficult spins were Plushenko, Buttle, Lysacek and actually Kristoffer Berntsson ( )..they all had two level 4 and two level 3...Lambiel had three level 3 and 1 level 2..

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kasey
    Heaven forbid someone actually look at the protocols, as to WHY Lysacek got higher spin scores than Lambiel:

    Lysacek:

    FcSSp4 ... GOE 0.5
    FSSp4 .... GOE 0.5
    CCoSp3 ... GOE 0.36
    CCoSp3 ... GOE 0.36

    Lambiel:

    CCoSp3 ...GOE 0.57
    FCoSp2 ... GOE 0.43
    FSSp3 ... GOE 0.36
    CCoSp3 ... GOE 1.00

    Lysacek got a total GOE of +1.72. Lambiel's total GOE is +2.36. If Lambiel would upgrade his spins, he would have scored higher on the total spin score. But 2 level 4 spins and 2 level 3 spins will outscore (if not fallen on) 3 level 3's and a level 2. It's just the math. No freaking judging controversy here, just plain math.

    Heck, and I'm not even a fan of Lysacek.
    Lysacek should not be scoring anywhere near Lambiel in GOE on spins, so spin scoring and spin rules are still horrable and flawed. First of all your GOE should not be halved like they currently are. Secondly the GOE should be judged right, the best spinners should get alot of +2 and +3 for their spins if done to their potential, the average or below spinners should get mostly 0s, some -1s, and only the odd -1 for their GOE on spins. If to get below 0 for GOE requires a mistake, then an average spin to the the worst quality spin getting the same GOE, a 0 should be the rule of thumb, it is still more fair than an average spin getting the same GOE scores as the above average spins. I get the impression the judges will never give out a 3 for GOE, and only a very poor spin gets 0s on GOE, so they just mix everybody with +1 and +2s which gives everybody almost the same GOE scores, and it only comes down to levels, eg-who does uglier spins. It is proposterous.

    If spin scoring was revised in that way than somebody like Lysacek would be 8 or 9 points below Lambiel in GOE scores on spins in the long, and 6 or 7 in the short like he should be! Instead they gain almost the same points on GOE for spins even though Lambiel's spins put Lysacek's to shame. If Lambiel was an American or Russian he would probably get only +3 on his spins(keeping in mind if was an American or Russian he would get inflated scores).
    Last edited by slutskayafan21; 02-17-2006 at 05:21 PM.

  15. #45
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    Am I one of the few who doesn't find Lambiel to be that great of a spinner? Yes, he is usually fast but he doesn't have the best positions and travels more often than one would expect from someone who is noted for spinning.

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