Bring Back The Old System Please!!!!

I am starting to understand that the new system sucks in every way. There was nothing wrong with the old system and it was a smokescreen to bring in a new system after the pairs scandal of 2002. The problem was never the system, but the integrity of the judges giving the scores. Under the new system you can lose 15 points, the equivalent of 3 or 4 falls, as Weir did by not putting in a jumping pass or two that might have lost you .1 under the old system.
Under this system the two worst spinners in the top 10, Plushenko and Lysacek get the highest spin scores at every event they enter, while the two best Buttle and Lambiel, get the lowest of anybody in the top 10 at most events they enter.
Unde this system you lose the equivalent of a fall for a slight quarter turn cheat(
4 points on average for both). Under the new system everybody is doing moves that look the same. Under the new system the PCS scores are so vague, and the judges have differing categories yet still lump the scores together as if each component were the same. Please somebody come up with a federation that takes over from the corrupt ISU, and bring back the old system ASAP, but with better judges!

Buttle would've never medaled under the system. His mistakes in the first and falls in the long would kept him off the podium

eh, or not...that system was not fair.. it's impossible to rank skaters like it was during that system, and at least I think it's great that a skater can advance with a really good free skate..Of course there are always going to be questionable results, but that's always the case when a judge is involved. To say the old system was better is just bizarre..the only thing I do miss is when skaters got a 6.0, but I don't think that alone justifies bringing it back. Absolutely not.

Engwaciriel said:

eh, or not...that system was not fair.. it's impossible to rank skaters like it was during that system, and at least I think it's great that a skater can advance with a really good free skate..Of course there are always going to be questionable results, but that's always the case when a judge is involved. To say the old system was better is just bizarre..the only thing I do miss is when skaters got a 6.0, but I don't think that alone justifies bringing it back. Absolutely not.

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Imposable to rank skaters? How so. You looked at the skating, considered everything and gave marks, rather than manipulating and hiding behind a cheating system that boosts your favorites more easily, and you can give the old tired and true argument "you dont understand the system". Under the old system you actualy got credit for jumps, spins, footwork, and overall skating. Now it just seems except for the clear leaders like Slutskaya and Plushenko everybody in the 2-8 range get the same PCS scores to each other, and to each of their own components, the much weaker spinners and footwork people get as high or higher spin and footwork scores at every event, and it only matters who lands harder jumps and misses fewer jumps. Under the old system atleast all around skating was rewarded.

Engwaciriel said:

eh, or not...that system was not fair.. it's impossible to rank skaters like it was during that system, and at least I think it's great that a skater can advance with a really good free skate..Of course there are always going to be questionable results, but that's always the case when a judge is involved. To say the old system was better is just bizarre..the only thing I do miss is when skaters got a 6.0, but I don't think that alone justifies bringing it back. Absolutely not.

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I so disagree with this... With the old system skaters were held accountable for what they put on the ice. If you fall, slip, slide or skip you were held responsible for that... If you did a major program with major elements that looked like crap, you were held accountable for that. Now all we have are skaters leaping around & flapping their arms about while spinning. Give me a good ol' fashioned, well done layback over this broken leg, arm splayed disbaucle that we have now.

Further, when was the last time we've had a quality competition where the winner wasn't know WAAAYYY before the long program? Since when is a fight for silver & bronze what this sport is all about?

Another thing... Before if you had a goal... top three to "control your destiny." Now, if you rack up a 10 point lead in the short, you can coast through your long and feel assured of your placement. In '02, Sarah would've never won the OGM because she'd been too far behind. In '05 at Worlds, Irina would've been held accountable for that sloppy allusion she threw in to save her jump combination. Michelle would've been totally buried at '05 Worlds because of her terrible Qualifying round, but those are the breaks. Miki Ando would have a better international standing because she could concentrate on being the jumping bean that God intended her to be and Mao could start building up that artistry because she'd need to...

The only skaters the new system is really helping are the inconsistent ones with bad technique because they aren't forced to pull it together. And if that means that Jeffrey wouldn't make the podium, too bad. Get your jumps together. Period.

How can we demand fair judging while rewarding sloppy skating? The new system proves nothing has changed in figure skating and highlights that the emperor has no clothes. Its sad...

I'll save my rant regarding the demise of the "casual fan" base for another time after the ratings for the Olympics come out, but I'm sure you've heard the same comments from family & friends that I've heard...

I think the new system is 110% better than the old.

The judges had the ability to judge someone on WHO they wanted to win in the old one, and it is harder to do this with this system. It is fairer and it gives more credit to artistry which should be a big part of figure skating as well as the big jumps. It's not just SLC that caused this change, it was LONG overdue, IMO.

At least in the new system, the skaters are being judged on every element. With the old 6.0 system, the skater was judged on their name. If this was the old system, Jeff Buttle would not have gotten the bronze medal, whereas some other big name skaters would have gotten it.

I agree with the comments about the spins. However, I do think the new system has its strengths. I like that a skater like Evan Lysacek can give a terrific long and move up in the standings. In the old system, if you didn't skate in the final flight, you might as well have packed up your skates and gone home. God bless Elvis Stojko (wonderful guy, skater and ambassador) but the guy had very little in the way of skating skills, presentation and spins yet was a multiple world champion based solely on jumps. It's not figure jumping, it's figure skating. The jumps should still count big but they shouldn't be everything and, under the old system, they were. Another reason I like this system is that Federations don't know what their own judge did. That allows the judge to do what they want. Sure they can still cheat but if they mark their own skater too high, their mark is thrown out. I like that people are being rewarded for jumps in the second half and for not doing a million crossovers into their jumps.

As for today's performances, I would have placed the skaters about the same even in the 6.0 system. I didn't see anyone get robbed. I wondered about Takahashi but he was penalized for poor spins, and some questionable jump quality. Everyone else got what they deserved. I haven't seen Evan's performance yet but I saw the entire final flight plus the Canadians. Does the CoP still have some bugs? Sure. But at least the judges aren't pulling marks out of their butts at random anymore. There are actual marks for every aspect of the program rather than some judge who doesn't know a flip from a lutz going, "Hmmmm, what about a 5.7 for that?"

Edited to add:

Further, when was the last time we've had a quality competition where the winner wasn't know WAAAYYY before the long program? Since when is a fight for silver & bronze what this sport is all about?

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You don't think it would have been more a foregone conclusion that the Russians would sweep the golds here in the 6.0 system??? The difference would have been that there would have been no competition for the silver or bronze, either!

All I can say is that I have never seen a more consistently boring bunch of programs at an Olympics in the last 38 years. '92 was painful, but not dull. I blame the judging system. Obviously, it can still be manipulated all to hell and it stifles artistry. :disagree: :disagree:

millie said:

At least in the new system, the skaters are being judged on every element. With the old 6.0 system, the skater was judged on their name. If this was the old system, Jeff Buttle would not have gotten the bronze medal, whereas some other big name skaters would have gotten it.

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Exactly my thoughts.

Problem never been the system. I see Judges use PCS scores to place the skaters where they want, more easyly in NJS than in 6.0.

And the skaters are able to build huge lead in SP, which prevents them skating all out.....So far the pairs and mens event's winning performances are 'flat' performances.....see if we can get some exciting performance in Dance and Ladies.

The top 5 men's finish exactly the same as last worlds. Except you insert Plushen at the top the rest each shift a place down.

6.0 was open to manipulation of the scores just as CoP is. In the main, they need to get rid of the anonymous judging. There also seems to be too much emphasis on levels and not enough on GOE. But I am not sure now to balance it.

I think some of us forget how much we whined and b!tched about the judging under 6.0, such as how skaters with great spins and footwork tended to not get credit for it. This is not to say CoP doesn't have its problems, but so did the old system.

I think the Cop system is better. It doesn't smothers artistry or promotes falling. It's the judges and the skaters that do. Skaters can present and jump. They choose sacrifice there program appeal by packing it. They may feel that they need to but don't have to. The judges are not helping with the Pcs. Cop actually promote wellrounded skating and reward skaters for doing what they can do best. Not every one have spins, or artistry, or jumps. Skaters were not rewarded for what they could do well under the 6.0 system. Cop is suppose to compare skaters to the standard instead of to other skaters, giving a truer score.

If skaters concentrated more on the GOE than the level, we should have better skating. An almost perfect triple should be better than an Okay, touch down quad.

Imo

I agree with kwanford wife completely. Under the 6.0 sloppiness was a no-no. It isn't under CoP and clean programs count for nothing. Under 6.0 they always got the right result with very few exceptions, and I do mean few.

Boring

I find the skating Boring and so I turned it off. The TV ratings are way off and I dont think they will turn back on. Its no better then 6.0 they still cheat and thats what needs to be fixed.

I agree with Ogre Mage the most, I think. The NJS doesn't suck any worse than the OJS did.

The real problem that I have with the CoP is that it did not -- and can not -- fix the problem of corrupt judging, but it did make the programs worse. I think that there are changes that could be made to the CoP to allow for better, cleaner programs -- but as long as judging is anonymous, corruption will be a problem

I realize that CoP is meant to encourage people to up the ante, but I'd rather see a clean performance than a sloppily performed one--even if it is more difficult. While Johnny did not skate like himself AT ALL tonight, at least he skated 2 clean programs. I know he'll use this as a learning experience and return to his amazing self. I guess I'm just really annoyed that the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th place finishers overall had performances laden with scary moments.

I think it puts the skaters under so much pressure that it almost annihilates the chances of any truly inspired performances. Not that the Olympics aren't full of pressure anyway. On the other hand the old system made everything sooo subjective that it was definately flawed as well. At least now some under the radar skaters get a better chance to win. Under the old system, the skaters who medaled almost had to have tenure, with a few exceptions.

I'd say the new system is better, but I wish they would fine tune it a bit so little mistakes (like a slight cheat in rotation on the landing) aren't as costly as falls, etc. I don't like the way the new system discourages skaters from trying more difficult elements, so they, in turn, go for something with a lesser degree of difficulty with the hope of positive GOE's.