Johnny missed the BUS! Oh, brother!

JonnyCoop · Feb 17, 2006

In his defense:

Bear in mind, Johnny is still young and I don't think anyone here would dispute that he definitely has a pretty strongly developed "artistic temperament". With this comes a certain tendency to get perhaps a bit excessively rattled if something like this occurs. So naturally he might blow it out of proportion a little.

Justafan · Feb 17, 2006

Rgirl said:
Johnny is unapologeticly Johnny and for those of us who love him, that's why. But that includes knowing that every so often Johnny is going to pull a Johnny, and last night, he did.

At first I was glad to see he'd changed his LP to "Otonal," but one thing I realized watching '05 Worlds on my tape is that the COP is much more demanding this season than last. For example, in '04/05 you just needed two changes of position in a combo spin to get a Level 3, as long as it was fast, well centered, and difficult. This season, everybody who wants high spin levels is doing four positions in a combo spin, and that still may only get them a Level 3.

Also, the judges are really cracking down on transitions. The German pairs team was a good example of using good tough transitions before every trick. There weren't nearly as many difficult transitions into elements last season as I've been seeing this year. So for Weir to bring back "Otonal" from 04/05 (yes?) was like bringing back last year's race car without the improvements to the engine, the wheels, etc.

To me, the choreography for "Otonal"--never mind the performance of it--looked as if it needed reworking to bring the difficulty up to Olympic '06 level. But because Weir didn't make the decision to change his LP until after Nationals, there was no time to bring the choreography up to speed. Johnny just didn't strategize.

If I may make a comparison: When Rudi Galindo won USN in '96, he did so only because he left his flamboyance at home and trained like a Marine, which he hadn't done in previous years. It was as if Rudi knew this was his last chance for a USN and World medal and thus for that entire year, he would have to have a mindset like a grunt at boot camp and train like one too. We could both see and hear how much his USN gold medal meant to Rudi and we could see how much his World Bronze meant to him too.

But Rudi knew Rudi and knew that this kind of life wasn't for him over the long haul. After '96 Worlds, Rudi immediately turned pro and started skating programs like "YMCA" with COI ASAP. Rudi let his flamboyance out once he'd established his "credentials" with his National Championship and World bronze. Then he could do whatever he wanted.

I'll miss it, but Johnny may have to channel his Inner Diva in a such a way that it doesn't interfere with training and competing with his gifts as a skater, which are legion. Johnny said it himself as qupted in the article, ie, that he needs to train more to be ready for unexpected situations--like missing the freakin' bus!--as well as train more period. The guy can do a quad. He just can't or won't do one when it counts.

But I love ye Johnny. Whatever color your true aura is, don't change it. Just work on your training and keep your Inner Diva inside under lock and key when necessary.

Rgjrl

EDITED TO ADD: Speaking of divas, I just went to The Edge and saw the thread "Rudi Galindo Lashes Out at Weir." It's over Rudi's contention that Johnny copies his moves, but still...

Good post and very true. I love Johnny too, but thought he shrugged this one off a little too much. I think his refusal to do the quad is just typical Cancerian stubborness. (My son is one too, so I know how they are.) They do what they want to do when they want to do it. Oh well...he's young, and if he can contain his inner bad boy, he might just really kick some butt over the next 4 years...he is capable of it. I would love to see him channel that into some fire and passion in his programs.

terriskates · Feb 18, 2006

soogar said:
He should have left earlier.

Maybe he was too engrossed in mopping the floor!
Whoever his roomate is at the O's deserves a medal, a case of something, or a Louis Verton (sp?) bag!

JonnyCoop · Feb 18, 2006

terriskates said:
Maybe he was too engrossed in mopping the floor!
Whoever his roomate is at the O's deserves a medal, a case of something, or a Louis Verton (sp?) bag!

Oh, please, they've probably been getting more entertainment these Games than about 75% of the spectators who paid for tickets.... Tho I understand your point. Actually, I have been DYING since Day One to know who his roomies are; I'm surprised one of them hasn't come forward yet. (I think he might have 2, based on the way a certain story was worded early on) Maybe they're still passed out from all the Pine-Sol fumes....

Jaana · Feb 18, 2006

My suggestion for Weir is that for the next season´s programmes he should go to David Wilson for the choreographies...That way he could get artistic programmes that also are successful with CoP-scoring. I feel so sad for Weir now...

hockeyfan228 · Feb 18, 2006

Weir didn't have to do the quad. He had to land two triple axels and do all eight jumping passes allowed instead of seven, and do all eleven jumps allowed instead of eight (or at least ten of eleven). If he had landed the 3A cleanly, he would have been up over 5 points, between the difference in base (7.5-3.3) and the 1.60 he lost in GOE for the underrotation and two-footed landing. If he had done a 2A at the end of the program, that would have been another +3.6; a 3T would have yielded 4.4. If he had tacked a 2T at the end of two combinations, he would have received another 2.6. Add that to the 6.4 points he was up over Buttle after the short program, and he might have squeaked in for the bronze, without even doing a 3/2/2, and he could have secured the win with a second 3/3 combination and one 3/2.

Last year, injured, he nearly made the podium with a program that wasn't maximized, but that same strategy didn't work in Torino, even though most of them men skated badly. The music in Otonal doesn't have a lot of highlights, except where he breaks out in his straightline footwork series. It wouldn't have hurt the flow or the music for him to add the additional jumps to create combos.

Rgirl · Feb 18, 2006

soogar said:
He should have left earlier.

Like maybe a week earlier? :laugh:

J/K. Though Weir is one of those skaters who prompts the little devil on my one shoulder to speak out a lot more than the little angel on the other. (Yes, I do have one of the latter. What kind of angel, though, I won't say.

)

hockeyfan228 said:
Weir didn't have to do the quad. He had to land two triple axels and do all eight jumping passes allowed instead of seven, and do all eleven jumps allowed instead of eight (or at least ten of eleven)....

...Last year, injured, he nearly made the podium with a program that wasn't maximized, but that same strategy didn't work in Torino, even though most of them men skated badly.

Great post as usual, Hockeyfan. Re your first sentence about Weir not needing the quad, absolutely true. Just ask Jeff Buttle.

Re the second sentences of yours I quoted, ie, that last year, Weir, injured nearly made the podium with a program ("Otonal") that wasn't maximized is what I meant when I referred to the weaknesses in the same "Otonal" this year as compared to last. IMO, an unchanged podium or near-podium-winning program in '04/05 is not "maxxed" enough, to riff on your description, to be a podium program this season.

Plush could skate a no-program program and win the gold because of his jumps, footwork, commanding technique, and sheer authority on the ice. Buttle won bronze by using superb choreography and skating it great skill and expression. Lambiel, IMO, won the silver with something in between Plush's strategy and Buttle's, though his strength is in his spins, obviously.

Like I said, Weir just didn't strategize. Apparently he thought if he skated "Otonal" well, in both senses of the word, it would be enough for a podium finish. As someone else said, Weir is young. Let's hope he's still young enough to learn from his mistakes instead of just reacting to them with hiis "diva" side.

Rgirl

JOHIO2 · Feb 18, 2006

since he didn't skate otonal "well," we ma never know.

76olympics · Feb 18, 2006

I don't think it is unfair to be exasperated with Johnny. I was perfectly capable of catching buses and arriving on time for exams/classes when I was 21. I didn't even have a drivers' license then and I met my obligations. Maybe, this will be a pivotal moment for him where he gains some maturity to match all of that potential.

Dee4707 · Feb 18, 2006

JonnyCoop said:
Oh, please, they've probably been getting more entertainment these Games than about 75% of the spectators who paid for tickets.... Tho I understand your point. Actually, I have been DYING since Day One to know who his roomies are; I'm surprised one of them hasn't come forward yet. (I think he might have 2, based on the way a certain story was worded early on) Maybe they're still passed out from all the Pine-Sol fumes....

Thanks for making me laugh. I am just a little less miffed at Johnny today. Thursay I could have choked him!!!

Dee

blackrose050 · Feb 18, 2006

Jaana said:
My suggestion for Weir is that for the next season´s programmes he should go to David Wilson for the choreographies...That way he could get artistic programmes that also are successful with CoP-scoring. I feel so sad for Weir now...

I don't think the choreography is the problem. His "Swan" was very CoP successful. Both of his long programs this season, had they been performed as PLANNED, would have been just as successful.

The problem is all in Johnny's head. He has the chance now, I hope, to realize that and fix it.

attyfan · Feb 18, 2006

What really ticked me off was Johnny first talking about skating badly because he missed the bus -- and only after his coach said that the bus issue was a bad excuse, and, there were negative articles, did Johnny change his tune and admit that he didn't deserve a medal because he didn't skate well. I'm not a Johnny fan -- he is a great skater, but I don't like his attitude, but I hope that he will grow up. After all, consider: Scott Hamilton came in 5th in 1980 -- he won in '84, where Brian Boitano came in 5th. In '92, Alexei Urmanov was 5th, and in '98, the 5th place finisher was Alexei Yagudin. If Johnny can do what these guys did -- learn and grow, he can join the parade of 5th to 1st.

kareliz · Feb 18, 2006

Why so hard on Johnny?

In the first interview, right off the ice, Johnny said that he knew he didn't deserve a medal, and that he "didn't really do anything out there." He mentioned the missed bus, but I felt his tone indicated that it was just a report of what happened, and not an excuse at all. He seemed to me to be taking responsibility for how he skated.

Isn't it intersting how fickle the media and public are? Evan is the big hero because he came back and skated a strong long program. He did, and it was just terrific. But how quickly everyone forgets Johnny's wonderful job in the short. Why is Johnny missing the bus so much worse than Evan's SP meltdown?

On Olympic Ice Scott and Jamie said Evan's experience in the short was a learning experience he would never forget. Isn't Johnny's long the same thing? He made a mistake, he lost his nerve and didn't attack. Yet Scott was so hard on him.

I love his skating and look forward to many more wonderful skates from him.

Ryan O · Feb 18, 2006

Johnny needs to stop spending so much time talking about shopping and fashion and focus on what he is doing!

R.D. · Feb 18, 2006

I'll cut him some slack. It was a learning experience for him. Hopefully in 2010 he'll come back refreshed and ready to go.

enlight78 · Feb 18, 2006

kareliz said:
In the first interview, right off the ice, Johnny said that he knew he didn't deserve a medal, and that he "didn't really do anything out there." He mentioned the missed bus, but I felt his tone indicated that it was just a report of what happened, and not an excuse at all. He seemed to me to be taking responsibility for how he skated.

Isn't it intersting how fickle the media and public are? Evan is the big hero because he came back and skated a strong long program. He did, and it was just terrific. But how quickly everyone forgets Johnny's wonderful job in the short. Why is Johnny missing the bus so much worse than Evan's SP meltdown?

On Olympic Ice Scott and Jamie said Evan's experience in the short was a learning experience he would never forget. Isn't Johnny's long the same thing? He made a mistake, he lost his nerve and didn't attack. Yet Scott was so hard on him.

I love his skating and look forward to many more wonderful skates from him.

People are often hard on those that they expect the most from. Or it could just be johnny's attitude.

attyfan · Feb 18, 2006

enlight78 said:
People are often hard on those that they expect the most from. Or it could just be johnny's attitude.

I think you are right -- that people (especially the press) are the hardest on those that they expect the most from -- but his attitude doesn't help him. It's the same with Bode Miller.

April · Feb 18, 2006

attyfan said:
I think you are right -- that people (especially the press) are the hardest on those that they expect the most from -- but his attitude doesn't help him. It's the same with Bode Miller.

Comparing JWeir to Bode Miller is like comparing a Donkey to a Swan. It's just soo wrong. In Weir's Olympic experience, he faced the media with grace and humor. He had excuses, yes, but at least, he did admit that it was his, and only his fault for the ill-fated performance. He doesn't blame the bus,who hasn't had the day when every seem out of order and nothing is going your way. I know I have had my fair share of days like that. It is truly unfortunate that elite figure skaters golden moments come down to those 4 minute routines, especially when they train so many hours. It all or nothing is this sport. The bus, the media attention, and his usual "butterflies-in-the-stomach" feelings are causes that directly played into Weir LP. However, being that Lambiel and Buttle mopped the ice and still get a medals, CoP only complicate how 'fly-by-night' fans may view the sport as being lame. Weir cracked under Olympic pressure, the bus had nothing to do with that.

Jaana · Feb 19, 2006

blackrose050 said:
I don't think the choreography is the problem. His "Swan" was very CoP successful. Both of his long programs this season, had they been performed as PLANNED, would have been just as successful.

The problem is all in Johnny's head. He has the chance now, I hope, to realize that and fix it.

Yes, his choreographies have been a problem the whole season. Changes, changes and more changes and after that the change of the freeskate programme into another one. That is not the way to prepare for the Olympics. The skater needs to have the programmes ready in August and after that start to rehearse it again, again, again and again, LOL.

Justafan · Feb 19, 2006

Well he did have his original LP ready but was soundly critisized for it after Nats, which helped prompt him to go back to Otonal. He missed most of the Grand Prix so he had plenty of training time. I think it's a matter of how much did he really want it? As I said before I'm a huge Johnny fan and I know he is dedicated, but I have to wonder how much he got to the Olympics and started getting wrapped up in his own hype. You can't just chalk it up to bad aura. If he was truly ready to win a medal, even being a little late would not have thrown him off his game enough to leave jumps out of his program, unless he was just totally exhausted and a bundle of nerves. I think he should have stuck with his original LP and tweaked it...but I don't know if that would have helped either. Time to ignore the celebrity pitfalls JW and fight for what you know you can do. I will say that looking at Johnny before the LP, he did not look focused at all and I know it was his first time to skate in competition with his dad in the audience, but at the end of the day, he who wants it most wins.

Johnny missed the BUS! Oh, brother!

JonnyCoop

Justafan

terriskates

JonnyCoop

Jaana

hockeyfan228

Rgirl

JOHIO2

76olympics

Dee4707

Ice Is Slippery - Alexie Yagudin

blackrose050

attyfan

Custom Title

kareliz

Ryan O

R.D.

enlight78

attyfan

Custom Title

April

Jaana

Justafan

Similar threads

Connect with us