Plushenko's ridiculous PCS

Dee4707 · Feb 17, 2006

eliza88 said:
I don't understand Plushenko's absurdly high PCS scores either...the performance was dull, hardly a transition, zero musicality and choreography...he has skated this problem better in the past but somehow his score are higher here with this lackluster skate? Ridiculous. He WAS the clear winner, I just find fault with his high scores.
eliza88

Eliza88, I guess this is what I don't understand about his performance last night. He was the winner no questions, no doubt about it being that way. Why did he skate the way he did, it just befuddles me. I see no reason for it. The least he could have done was entertain us. Hard to believe but I think that was by far for me one of his worst skates.

Dee

Linny · Feb 17, 2006

It's not the system

The problem isn't the system, never was. The problem is the judges. Always was.

Linny

FreeKatie · Feb 17, 2006

Linny said:
The problem isn't the system, never was. The problem is the judges. Always was.

Linny

and we have a winner.... :bow:

enlight78 · Feb 17, 2006

So how do one fix the problem with the judges? Please shower me with your ideas.

FreeKatie · Feb 17, 2006

enlight78 said:
So how do one fix the problem with the judges? Please shower me with your ideas.

torture?

mzheng · Feb 17, 2006

curious said:
None of the others skaters had more pressure than Evgeny. He did enough to win,but it was clear that he was not happy with his performance. Yags was also cautious in Salt Lake(Plushy skated a better lp than Yags) but his fans don't care about that cause he won gold right?

Yagudin at least shown his emotion at SLC when he weas skating. Where is Plushen's 'flashy' 'pizaz' he usually to carry? None, zlich.

He deserved his win. But he was rediculously over marked in at least 3 PCS scores (Transitions, interpretation, choreography). Totally blah on interpretation and choreography in SP. And totally blah on transitions in LP.

ETA. My daughter's comments on Plushen's SP performance

He skates like he has a seperate ear phone plugged in his ear with a disco music on. Flapping his arms according to what from ear phone instead of the one in arena.

She said his agitated arm flailing deserved a level 12. Cause she tried imitating his flailing arms. Then commented:

OMG, it's awful difficult to flailing your arms 2 and half min. He definitely deserves the Gold.

mzheng · Feb 17, 2006

ikfan said:
I think he should have won, no question but it shows that the judges are not judging correctly.

In the paper there was a quote saying that he skated very very slowly [this is hard to see on TV] and his performance was forgetable unlike Vickor p, Urmanov, Kulik and Yags.

He has great footwork but isn't it just about the same pattern for years now and in no way did it go to the music. In fact I thought the entire program could have been skated to any music for all the connection it had with the music he was using.

The gold medal performance seemed to leave him emotionless and the audience too. :frown2:

I agree with you absolutely about the performance compare to former OGM.

About the speed, you can see even on TV (use background ad as reference) he started LP very very slow and cautious, it was after 3 'crossover then jumps' that he picked up a little speed....but I give him props for that, even with so slow speed going into the jump, he was still able to musel out his jumps. He IS an incredible jumper no question.

Panther2000 · Feb 17, 2006

Linny said:
The problem isn't the system, never was. The problem is the judges. Always was.

Linny

True True True.

Well eveyone have a great weekend. I will see you back on Tues. :agree:

mylastduchess · Feb 17, 2006

Maybe like the technical marks, the PCS should be seperated into levels to, a trained choreaographer will determine weather the choreo is level 1 or lets say level six (balanced program, etc.) same thing with Transition, and they should add musicality to the PCS as well!

sk8fanconvert · Feb 17, 2006

enlight78 said:
So how do one fix the problem with the judges? Please shower me with your ideas.

The ISU (I know, I know!) should hire and train professional judges and make their scores public.

edited to add: Prerequisite for judging: having been a competitive figure skater (say at an international event or from a country's national championships).

Serena · Feb 18, 2006

slutskayafan21 said:
Lysacek, Sandhu, and to a lesser extent Joubert were the ones overscored, not really Plushenko. Plushenko's PCS and spin scores are high sometimes but how was he that overscored. If Lambiel's error-strewn performances were the 2nd best, if Buttle's flawed free skate with a fall on his only quad attempt was the 2nd best free skate, and if Weir quadless short program was the 2nd best short program, then Plushenko's huge margins over the field are understandable.

In the 6.0 system, where they were, in a sense, graded on a curve, then fine. But this system (supposedly) is based on awarding points to the individual skater, regardless of everyone else. Just because Plushenko was the best, doesn't mean he deserved the points he got.

freelanceslacker · Feb 18, 2006

slutskayafan21 said:
Lysacek, Sandhu, and to a lesser extent Joubert were the ones overscored, not really Plushenko. Plushenko's PCS and spin scores are high sometimes but how was he that overscored. If Lambiel's error-strewn performances were the 2nd best, if Buttle's flawed free skate with a fall on his only quad attempt was the 2nd best free skate, and if Weir quadless short program was the 2nd best short program, then Plushenko's huge margins over the field are understandable.

Both Sandhu and Joubert had subpar free skates, but Lysacek skated a clean program that had 8 triples and pcs-friendly elements like transitions and choreography- how was he overscored? You seem to be saying that Plushenko's high PCS scores are justified because none of his competitors landed quads, but quads don't have anything to do with any of the PCS marks (except maybe skating skills) so whether a skater does a quad or not should be irrelevant in terms of PCS unless he has a really messy fall on it.

Vitacus · Feb 18, 2006

Then in other words, a fall - or falls would/should lower the PC scores automatically? A fall, or falls, does take away from the flow of the program, it does hurt choreo, performance and even transitions, or am I getting it wrong? :scratch:

zeytin · Feb 18, 2006

i really can't understand why Plushenko is taking such negative reactions from everyone! I really wasn't expecting it. it really bothers me, because looks like he's never had good programs. I think everyone was a little overmarked but the only topic is plush's high scores.
he had lots of artistically strong programms in last 6 six years...he is not only strong at jumps...remember his exhibitions, crowd always has been pretty nice to him...he was always like a superstar at exhibitions, is this just because he jumps well???

zeytin

Mafke · Feb 18, 2006

zeytin said:
i really can't understand why Plushenko is taking such negative reactions from everyone! I really wasn't expecting it. it really bothers me, because looks like he's never had good programs. I think everyone was a little overmarked but the only topic is plush's high scores.
he had lots of artistically strong programms in last 6 six years...he is not only strong at jumps...remember his exhibitions, crowd always has been pretty nice to him...he was always like a superstar at exhibitions, is this just because he jumps well???
zeytin

Plushenko is a showman and jumper, but this was the least interesting gold medal mens lp since Scott Hamilton in 1984 (and he was sick and didn't win the lp). Plushenko himself didn't seem so pleased with it. But .... the judges gave him record setting marks including very high marks for transitions (did you see any?) and choreography (did you see any?)
It's not Plushenko's fault as much as the judges and that's where the anger (at least mine) is directed. I though he won the sp and lp both, just not by such large margins.

SunshineSlayer · Feb 18, 2006

rain said:
The judges could have easily given Plushenko scores more reflective of his actual performance and he would still have won. It irks me that they try to make it look like he had the best skate of all time. I thought, in fact, just in general performance quality it didn't even rank up there with the best performances Plushenko's ever given. He looked kind of paint-by-numbers without much passion. Perhaps because there was nobody there to push him. Nevertheless, it was not the most exciting LP in Olympic history.
End of ramble.

ITA on your whole post. Unfair judging is still alive and well.

zeytin said:
he had lots of artistically strong programms in last 6 six years...he is not only strong at jumps...remember his exhibitions, crowd always has been pretty nice to him...he was always like a superstar at exhibitions, is this just because he jumps well???

zeytin

We are not judging what he has done in the last 6 years or in exhibitions and the judges shouldn't have been either. His Olympic programs were very lackluster in the PCS category and those are the only 2 programs that should count toward his scores - not how good his presentation might have been in an exhibition somewhere in the last 6 years.

zeytin · Feb 18, 2006

if judges have given their marks for only the performance they watched that night, sandhu would be at last place or something like that....judges do this every time....not only for plushenko...
but i agree that plush wasn't good at olympics and he wasn't like his old times...i enjoyed his old programms much much more than this one...

zeytin

SunshineSlayer · Feb 18, 2006

zeytin said:
if judges have given their marks for only the performance they watched that night, sandhu would be at last place or something like that....judges do this every time....not only for plushenko...

zeytin

Obviously this is something that must change though. Just because it is common, doesn't mean it shouldn't be discussed.

tish · Feb 19, 2006

mzheng said:
Yagudin at least shown his emotion at SLC when he weas skating. Where is Plushen's 'flashy' 'pizaz' he usually to carry? None, zlich.

He deserved his win. But he was rediculously over marked in at least 3 PCS scores (Transitions, interpretation, choreography). Totally blah on interpretation and choreography in SP. And totally blah on transitions in LP.

ETA. My daughter's comments on Plushen's SP performance

She said his agitated arm flailing deserved a level 12. Cause she tried imitating his flailing arms. Then commented:

Your daughter's hilarious!!!! :rofl:

:chorus:

Vash01 · Feb 19, 2006

SunshineSlayer said:
ITA on your whole post. Unfair judging is still alive and well.

We are not judging what he has done in the last 6 years or in exhibitions and the judges shouldn't have been either. His Olympic programs were very lackluster in the PCS category and those are the only 2 programs that should count toward his scores - not how good his presentation might have been in an exhibition somewhere in the last 6 years.

He did not have his usual passion in his LP, but his SP was fine. I disagree that BOTH his Olympic programs were poor in PCS. I agree about his transitions not being the most difficult and he did not Sell the program the way he normally does but the comments I am reading here are giving me the impression that Plushenko skated horribly. I find that disturbing. These were the Olympics. Most skaters get nervous, particularly those who are under pressure (or feel that they are) to win medals. The subpar performances of Weir, Lambiel, Joubert are clear examples of this. For the performance he gave, Lambiel's scores were high, although the placement was correct. Buttle seemed less nervous but he too made mistakes. However, I feel that Plushenko is being criticized way too much. Only a handful of Olympic champions skated their best in their gold medal winning performances, and they were exceptions rather than rule (Boitano, Kulik, Hughes, G&G in 88). Yagudin skated well, but he too was a bit cautious compared to usual (I watched it live). Hamilton's LP performance was particularly poor. The usually reliable Kristi Yamaguchi did not skate her best either. They all deserved their wins, just like Plushenko deserved his. Yet I don't recall the skaters I mentioned being subjected to this kind of criticism. Plushenko was obviously under tremendous pressure and wanted to make sure that he would skate clean. It was not his best performance but there can be no two opinions about his win.

Vash

Plushenko's ridiculous PCS

Dee4707

Ice Is Slippery - Alexie Yagudin

Linny

FreeKatie

enlight78

FreeKatie

mzheng

mzheng

Panther2000

mylastduchess

Guest

sk8fanconvert

Serena

freelanceslacker

Vitacus

zeytin

Mafke

SunshineSlayer

zeytin

SunshineSlayer

tish

Vash01

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