MENS LP = Lame programs? | Golden Skate

MENS LP = Lame programs?

Mafke

Medalist
Joined
Mar 22, 2004
Strange competition, in terms of skating enjoyment I liked four programs from the third! and second! groups more than anything in the final flight ...

Klimkin - Yay! did much better, I still don't understand why his SP score was so low. Can anyone explain. Not his best as he's ditched a lot of his more interesting stuff to get in the COP friendly elements. If he had to fall (I suppose he did) then better on the cantilever than on a jump I guess. I'm hoping that his relatively low scores are paying his dues in COP and that we'll see more realistic numbers at worlds.

Van Perrin - Sloppy in places (muchos balance-checkos in his footwork) but the best he's done, really woke up the place. First real show stopper of the evening. I'm still not a fan, but I can see why some people are. First quad in competition for him I think.

Lysacek - How does he pronounce his name? Is it Lee-sah-check? Anyway, well choreographed and delivered with a lot of committment. Spins a little on the weak side (yes, we realise you can stick your leg straight out in a sitspin, that's very commendable, now stop it). Was very diva-ish in the final footwork. If he gets a quad he'll be a real force.

Savoie - Best match of choreography and performance all night. Personal favorite performance all night. Sloppy in places. Not the greatest extension in moves that cry out for it, not the greatest centering, but inventive and wonderful and please don't retire. Please. Don't. We need stuff like this (I need stuff like this). Stay in. (don't make me get tough now).

Plushenko - Has there ever been a more front-loaded choreography free program? Let's see, it opens with siix, 6, seis, sechs, sei, shest' that's SIX!!!!!!!!!! freaking jumping passes with no footwork or spins and virtually no choreography. He was OVER TWO MINUTES into the program before the first spin. Is this reflected in PCS? Don't be silly, darling, this is Plushenko. The huge crowd reaction is more due to this being the olympics and plushenko finally getting the gold than the performance itself (reminds me of scott hamilton in Sarajevo) At least I hope that's the case. PCS come from another planet as far as I can tell. Yes, I would have him first in both SP and LP but the margins have no basis in reality. This is the olympics, not a lifetime achievement award.
Still all credit to him, he's the first ever (I think) skater to actually get the gold that eluded him in a previous olympics. I can't think of another gold contender who didn't win and then came back to win.

Lambiel - A mess, for him, that's all there is to it, wins silver placing 3rd in the short and 4th(!) in the long, that's just messed up. Final spin and a jump here or there was okay but that's it. I'm hoping for better stuff for him. He wins the gold medal for hideous lp costume. Zebra/Tiger strips with blue sleeves and baggy pants leave everyone in the dust. I had to avert my eyes at times.

Weir - Okay, I was expecting a meltdown from descriptions and this wasn't a meltdown. It was sloppy and distracted FOR WEIR but most skaters never come close to this level of choreography and execution. Best match of choreography and performance in the final flight. It's a testament to his talent that this is considered a letdown. Note to Weir: I understand missing the bus and being not warmed up and leaving out the quad because of that. Perfectly reasonable. But at worlds you have to try the quad in the LP or shut up about it, choice is up to you.

Buttle - I appreciate Buttle more than enjoy him. Yes, well worked out choreography, yes good spins, yes engaging personality, but the music didn't fit the skater or the costume or the whatever. (Maybe because I know what happens in the opera, inthe slow section (Delilah's big aria) a ***** is seducing a holy man, tell us Jeff, which are you trying to be?) Sloppy execution on the jumps, much worse than anything Weir did. Amazing that he gets more points for a fall on a fully rotated quad than a clean but slightly underrotated jump would get. Second place in the LP is a mystery to me.

Rest of the field - blah, I couldn't get interested enough to comment. Some better, some worse, but nothing for me to write here about.
 

antmanb

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 5, 2004
Mafke said:
Van Perrin - Sloppy in places (muchos balance-checkos in his footwork) but the best he's done, really woke up the place. First real show stopper of the evening. I'm still not a fan, but I can see why some people are. First quad in competition for him I think.

No he's landed the quad in competition a bunch of times before - he is like Lambiel in that his quad is better than his triple axel. He definitely landed the quad in both short and long at last year's worlds.

Mafke said:
Plushenko - Has there ever been a more front-loaded choreography free program? Let's see, it opens with siix, 6, seis, sechs, sei, shest' that's SIX!!!!!!!!!! freaking jumping passes with no footwork or spins and virtually no choreography. He was OVER TWO MINUTES into the program before the first spin. Is this reflected in PCS? Don't be silly, darling, this is Plushenko. The huge crowd reaction is more due to this being the olympics and plushenko finally getting the gold than the performance itself (reminds me of scott hamilton in Sarajevo) At least I hope that's the case. PCS come from another planet as far as I can tell. Yes, I would have him first in both SP and LP but the margins have no basis in reality. This is the olympics, not a lifetime achievement award.
Still all credit to him, he's the first ever (I think) skater to actually get the gold that eluded him in a previous olympics. I can't think of another gold contender who didn't win and then came back to win.

And that pretty much sums it up...i could live with high marks in the skating skills and probably in the execution but for interpretation, choreography and transitions his marks should be in around the 4s if not the 3s. The PCS are supposed to be marked on the percentage of time the skater is doing those things. As you said for two minutes Plush skated around like he was on an elite freestyle patch ice session...two footed gliding and stroking to set up jumps, and jumping....for two minutes...so there's only 55% of the prgram left to do things in. Even if he skated his heart and soul out emoting and interpretting the music and put in the most complex choreo and transitions in tho the second half of his programs maxed out marks for him would be 5.5. Since he didn't i think you could make a good argument for giving him marks more around 3.5 for those categories.

Mafke said:
Lambiel - A mess, for him, that's all there is to it, wins silver placing 3rd in the short and 4th(!) in the long, that's just messed up. Final spin and a jump here or there was okay but that's it. I'm hoping for better stuff for him. He wins the gold medal for hideous lp costume. Zebra/Tiger strips with blue sleeves and baggy pants leave everyone in the dust. I had to avert my eyes at times.

Yep i thought Lambiel was shockingly bad in this LP. His 4/3/2 was better than Plush's though but everything else was bad - including the spins...except for teh final combination spin i thought Buttle, Weir, Joubert and possibly even Plushy outspun him last night.

Mafke said:
Weir - Okay, I was expecting a meltdown from descriptions and this wasn't a meltdown. It was sloppy and distracted FOR WEIR but most skaters never come close to this level of choreography and execution. Best match of choreography and performance in the final flight. It's a testament to his talent that this is considered a letdown. Note to Weir: I understand missing the bus and being not warmed up and leaving out the quad because of that. Perfectly reasonable. But at worlds you have to try the quad in the LP or shut up about it, choice is up to you.

You know what...i have to come right out and say it - i hate Otonal! I haven't seen his original LP but Otonal leaves. me. cold. He's far too introspective in the program...and he does do projection - his SP is nothing short of breathtaking the LP...Blah. Maybe he was nervous, maybe he was still cursing the change ni bus times (!) but he made no connection during that program and the hotch potch changing of his program at the last minute did him no favours. He needs to start doing runthroughs of the program he intends to use at worlds NOW and he needs to stick to it. Is Plush going? If he is then i say get the quad in there and do the program aver and over be it with a fall on the quad or a pop out for the triple but either way stick to the damn plan and don't go mixing in a double axel for a laugh!

Mafke said:
Buttle - I appreciate Buttle more than enjoy him. Yes, well worked out choreography, yes good spins, yes engaging personality, but the music didn't fit the skater or the costume or the whatever. (Maybe because I know what happens in the opera, inthe slow section (Delilah's big aria) a ***** is seducing a holy man, tell us Jeff, which are you trying to be?) Sloppy execution on the jumps, much worse than anything Weir did. Amazing that he gets more points for a fall on a fully rotated quad than a clean but slightly underrotated jump would get. Second place in the LP is a mystery to me.

You see this is where i disagree i thought Buttle's was the only program that actually drew me in and took me on a journey. Its the only program that if that youtake out the jumps and spins, i'd still want to watch it because he moves so beautifully and easily across the ice - he hits such beautiful positions...the depth of edge and lean on that inside spread eagle near the beginning is something else. I could go on and on at great length about the merits of Buttle's skating but will spare you!

Mafke said:
Rest of the field - blah, I couldn't get interested enough to comment. Some better, some worse, but nothing for me to write here about.

I don't undersatnd the hype about Takahashi....he had one good skate on teh GP and it seems everyone had crowned him the new face of figure skating here to beat luschenko and everything. To me, he's imporved since moscow worlds but i dno't really get the fuss. Maybe he's an acquired taste and you have to watch him more than once a year to get it...it took me awhile with johnny too so i'm willing to eat humble pie on this!
Ant
 
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soogar

Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 18, 2003
My thoughts: I only caught the end of Klimkin's program and downloaded the German version. What did Scott, Dick and Sandra say about him? Anything interesting? I don't know what to say about Ilia. I think his injury took a lot out of him and perhaps Kundravstev is influencing him too much b/c he's just not the special skater he used to be be. When he was with Rusakov, his programs were intricate with lots of choreo. Now he's using the same startegy as Plush, crossovers into jumps for the entire program. Even his SP was stripped down compared to the way it looked at Euros. Though he was injured for a long time so maybe he's just getting his legsunder him.

KVDP
Huge eyeroll at Dick saying that Kevin's hughe ovation was b/c the stadium was filled with Belgium fans. In the pairs competition, it was b/c the stadium was filled with Russian fans... C'mon, there's only so many fans the stadium can fill... Kevin was a lot of fun to watch.

Evan Lysacyk: He skated great and he should have gotten bronze. Though he robbed himself by not maxing his program out with a 3 jump combo (if there was I missed it) and a quad attempt like Jeff. But he had the best program in the competition and he was his usual sharp self.

Weir:
I think changing back to Otonol was a bad move. I dont; know what excuse Johnny is saying with the bus and all, but he just plain forgot his program out there. It didn't even look like the program he did last year. Under Olympi stress , it's best to keep the program you have been doing all along.

Edited to add:
Jeff Buttle, This program sucked and he interprets music the same from program to program. Same head movements and everything. Plus this program looked emptier than his other program that he had been competing with this season. I thought Evan should have edged him out.

Plushenko: Very disappointing. He was slow and didn't even bother selling the choreo. He was much bertter in Dormund and at the previous Olympics.

Lambiel: What can I say. Even with that mess of a program, he still did enough to get a silver medal. That says a lot about the state of men's skating that he can win a silver. Though his tears of joy at winning the silver on the men's podium was a joy to behold. What a wonderful man. I wish he had skated well enough to win gold because he would have been wonderful to watch as the anthem played.

Daisuke: He did more than Jeff but he was a mess. I agree with him not getting the bronze.

Joubert: Poor Brian. Especially since he had a fun program and the fastest spins in the competition. I really like Brian's clean style of skating.
 
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Ravyn Rant

Totally 80s Dance Party!
Medalist
Joined
Jan 22, 2004
So far, I'm not too impressed with Olympic skating this time around. The men's event is my favorite, and I was really disappointed to see that no one skated to his potential. I was nodding off by the time NBC aired the final group.
Placement of 4, 5 and 7 for the US men would have been wonderful anywhere else, but it's going to haunt me for a while that had Matt not made those little boo-boos, had Johnny skated a good long and Evan a good short - the placement could have been 2, 3 and maybe even 4.
Oh, well. Congrats to Plushenko on his win, I'm wery, wery heppy for him.
No really. I really am.
(*sigh*)
Rave
 

FreeKatie

On the Ice
Joined
Nov 21, 2005
I love Buttle's skating but his choreography irks me for some reason. His LP outfit was also very distracting. I think he is a fabulous spinner !! move over Lambiel.

Plushy, the great bamboozler! haha. He's a great performer so he can get away with jump jump jump, arm movement, arm movement, arm movement - and it works for him somehow! I agree with Dick Button, I can't take my eyes of of him!

Weir, disappointing, should have stuck with his LP from Nationals and should have attempted all his jumps. Why did they all look so exhausted (besides Plushenko?)

Lambiel - disappointing

Savoie - beautiful LP

Evan - probably the best overall LP of the night

Sandhu - no comment

Sean Sawyer - another highlight of the night

Japanese guy - messy program, but has a lot of potential.
 

Mafke

Medalist
Joined
Mar 22, 2004
antmanb said:
On KVP: No he's landed the quad in competition a bunch of times before - he is like Lambiel in that his quad is better than his triple axel.
---
On EP:...i could live with high marks in the skating skills and probably in the execution but for interpretation, choreography and transitions his marks should be in around the 4s if not the 3s.
----
on JW: but he made no connection during that program and the hotch potch changing of his program at the last minute did him no favours. He needs to start doing runthroughs of the program he intends to use at worlds NOW and he needs to stick to it.
-------
On JB: You see this is where i disagree i thought Buttle's was the only program that actually drew me in and took me on a journey. Its the only program that if that youtake out the jumps and spins, i'd still want to watch it because he moves so beautifully and easily across the ice

Ant

It was an interview with Peizerat that KVP said he did something (combo?) the first time, I assumed quad but wasn't listening closely.

I was thinking 5's and 6's for EP's 'choreography' but you're right 3 or 4 is closer to the mark. I wonder if any judges will get a talking to for insanely inflated marks?

Yeah, his performance last night wasn't good for him, but I was expecting a major meltdown or zamboniesque performance and it wasn't. It was just kind of blah (the whole problem, he can't afford blah, he needs to be outstanding to draw the audience in) I think Otonal was okay last year but switching lp's was a mistake (though I haven't seen the other one) as he did seem to forget the choreography (at least you notice when he departs from his choreography).

My head understands the great stuff about Buttle but really there's no magic for me (yet), really Jeff, it's not you, it's me, no don't call .... And knowing the music too well got in the way of my enjoyment and his landings were really off, I partly blame COP for his planned fall on the quad (did he seriously think he had a chance of landing it?)
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
Mafke said:
...but (Buttle's) music didn't fit the skater or the costume or the whatever. (Maybe because I know what happens in the opera, in the slow section (Delilah's big aria) a ***** is seducing a holy man, tell us Jeff, which are you trying to be?)
Thank you. I spent the whole time wondering what this had to do with Sampson and Delilah.

But maybe he wasn't trying to interpret the music. Maybe he was just skating, with some pretty music playing in the background. Then it was OK.
 

Dee4707

Ice Is Slippery - Alexie Yagudin
Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 28, 2003
Country
United-States
I was so disappointed in the men's programs. It was such a letdown. Can someone explain to me what Evgeni was doing??? I guess I don't understand why he didn't do his LP as he did at Europeans. I don't understand what he was trying to prove. He had the gold, why not give a half way decent LP. I was really disappointed in his program.

I was disappointed in all the contender's programs.

Dee
 

Ogre Mage

On the Ice
Joined
Jul 30, 2003
I partly blame COP for his planned fall on the quad (did he seriously think he had a chance of landing it?)
Under CoP, falling seems sufficiently penalized in the SP, where there are a limited number of jumping passes, but not in the LP. I love Jeff's skating and like Stephane's, but they both had too many errors in their LPs. I would rather see a cleanly executed triple than a bunch of falls on quad attempts. I don't think the system should reward falls on quads.
 

antmanb

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 5, 2004
Mafke said:
My head understands the great stuff about Buttle but really there's no magic for me (yet), really Jeff, it's not you, it's me, no don't call .... And knowing the music too well got in the way of my enjoyment and his landings were really off, I partly blame COP for his planned fall on the quad (did he seriously think he had a chance of landing it?)

Well beside the fall it was pertty much there - it was fully rotated and on one foot his weight just went back and he slipped off the heel. All he needed was a tiny bit bit more hieght or length to have just one extra moment to have a bitmore time to check and he would have been there...it wasn't a bad miss it was a near miss, better than any of the other guys who missed their quads.

Ant
 
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Panther2000

On the Ice
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
FreeKatie said:
I love Buttle's skating but his choreography irks me for some reason. His LP outfit was also very distracting. I think he is a fabulous spinner !! move over Lambiel.

Plushy, the great bamboozler! haha. He's a great performer so he can get away with jump jump jump, arm movement, arm movement, arm movement - and it works for him somehow! I agree with Dick Button, I can't take my eyes of of him!

Weir, disappointing, should have stuck with his LP from Nationals and should have attempted all his jumps. Why did they all look so exhausted (besides Plushenko?)

Lambiel - disappointing

Savoie - beautiful LP

Evan - probably the best overall LP of the night

Sandhu - no comment

Sean Sawyer - another highlight of the night

Japanese guy - messy program, but has a lot of potential.


I second your post. I was in the process of moving on Wed. & Thank God I could see the LP last night. Still no Cable though:cry: & No Internet at home DAMN.

But, Plush's program Good God where was it. Talk about a cakewalk. There was no competition at all. So, therefore he did not need a program really. Just a few jumping passes & it was all his. & his Program Cough Cough reflected that. He did not need to do much at all. The skaters had already gave him the gold medal. All he had to do was jut showup. & that is a dam shame. The mens event was a Crap. At Least in 2002 there was an acutal men's skating event. Though the only medal up for grabs was the bronz. But, Alexei & Plush did battle eachother.

I must say that As An American. I am very happy for Johnny W. Running his mouth just made me sick. Now, lets start with the excuses. Wah Wah Wah.:boohoo:


I am on the other hand very happy for Evan. He I think really should have gotten that Bronze Medal. But, He really came through in the LP.
 

equestrianguy

On the Ice
Joined
Jan 20, 2004
The best highlights of the Men's LP was Evan's performance and Shawn Sawyer from CA. Everyone else was either falling all over the place or skating to different programs or no program at all...lol
 

dizzydi7

On the Ice
Joined
Oct 31, 2004
Mens LP

Just a couple of observations......

Johnny Weir's performance was so uninspired, it seemed he was "sleep" skating. I wouldn't be surprised if he woke up this morning saying "did I skate yet?"

Evan redeemed himself with a wonderful long program. I hope he can get rid of his Olympic jitters and skate well at Worlds next month.

I was disappointed in the performances of Jeff, Emanuel, Brian, etc. The pressure seems to have influenced their performances. Too bad.

Pleshenko----well, I don't like his style of skating---I've never like it. It's too bad that he is such a great jumper because I honestly see no other redeeming qualities in his skating. My apologies to his fans. Please know this is just my opinion.

One other comment. Did anyone notice anything interesting about the skater whom Angela Nikodinov is coaching? As I watched him skate, I couldn't help but notice that he seems to suffer a similar flaw of Angela's. It seemed that once he made a mistake, his program was doomed.

Just my thoughts

Dizzy
 

rain

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 29, 2003
How many inspiring programs are there ever at the Olympics? It seems to me there's always only a rare few. For me, the highlights were Van der Parren (though he significantly lost steam at the end), Lysachek (I'm not quite understanding all the vitriol that seems directed against him. I thought he went all out and his new program was a great choice - thank goodness he ditched that junior looking Grease thing.) and Buttle who skated a better long than he has all season and demonstrated those skating skills that I think are the best in the world. Beautiful, passionate program.
 

emma

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 28, 2004
Mafke said:
Strange competition, in terms of skating enjoyment I liked four programs from the third! and second! groups more than anything in the final flight ...

Klimkin - Yay! did much better, I still don't understand why his SP score was so low. Can anyone explain. Not his best as he's ditched a lot of his more interesting stuff to get in the COP friendly elements. If he had to fall (I suppose he did) then better on the cantilever than on a jump I guess. I'm hoping that his relatively low scores are paying his dues in COP and that we'll see more realistic numbers at worlds.

Van Perrin - Sloppy in places (muchos balance-checkos in his footwork) but the best he's done, really woke up the place. First real show stopper of the evening. I'm still not a fan, but I can see why some people are. First quad in competition for him I think.

Lysacek - How does he pronounce his name? Is it Lee-sah-check? Anyway, well choreographed and delivered with a lot of committment. Spins a little on the weak side (yes, we realise you can stick your leg straight out in a sitspin, that's very commendable, now stop it). Was very diva-ish in the final footwork. If he gets a quad he'll be a real force.

Savoie - Best match of choreography and performance all night. Personal favorite performance all night. Sloppy in places. Not the greatest extension in moves that cry out for it, not the greatest centering, but inventive and wonderful and please don't retire. Please. Don't. We need stuff like this (I need stuff like this). Stay in. (don't make me get tough now).

Plushenko - Has there ever been a more front-loaded choreography free program? Let's see, it opens with siix, 6, seis, sechs, sei, shest' that's SIX!!!!!!!!!! freaking jumping passes with no footwork or spins and virtually no choreography. He was OVER TWO MINUTES into the program before the first spin. Is this reflected in PCS? Don't be silly, darling, this is Plushenko. The huge crowd reaction is more due to this being the olympics and plushenko finally getting the gold than the performance itself (reminds me of scott hamilton in Sarajevo) At least I hope that's the case. PCS come from another planet as far as I can tell. Yes, I would have him first in both SP and LP but the margins have no basis in reality. This is the olympics, not a lifetime achievement award.
Still all credit to him, he's the first ever (I think) skater to actually get the gold that eluded him in a previous olympics. I can't think of another gold contender who didn't win and then came back to win.

Lambiel - A mess, for him, that's all there is to it, wins silver placing 3rd in the short and 4th(!) in the long, that's just messed up. Final spin and a jump here or there was okay but that's it. I'm hoping for better stuff for him. He wins the gold medal for hideous lp costume. Zebra/Tiger strips with blue sleeves and baggy pants leave everyone in the dust. I had to avert my eyes at times.

Weir - Okay, I was expecting a meltdown from descriptions and this wasn't a meltdown. It was sloppy and distracted FOR WEIR but most skaters never come close to this level of choreography and execution. Best match of choreography and performance in the final flight. It's a testament to his talent that this is considered a letdown. Note to Weir: I understand missing the bus and being not warmed up and leaving out the quad because of that. Perfectly reasonable. But at worlds you have to try the quad in the LP or shut up about it, choice is up to you.

Buttle - I appreciate Buttle more than enjoy him. Yes, well worked out choreography, yes good spins, yes engaging personality, but the music didn't fit the skater or the costume or the whatever. (Maybe because I know what happens in the opera, inthe slow section (Delilah's big aria) a ***** is seducing a holy man, tell us Jeff, which are you trying to be?) Sloppy execution on the jumps, much worse than anything Weir did. Amazing that he gets more points for a fall on a fully rotated quad than a clean but slightly underrotated jump would get. Second place in the LP is a mystery to me.

Rest of the field - blah, I couldn't get interested enough to comment. Some better, some worse, but nothing for me to write here about.

I couldn't agree more, nor say what I was feeling last night more clearly. I would just add two things: first, that quad triple double that they showed Weir doing in practice was stunning, simply gorgeous. I hope he goes for it at Worlds. And, I hope he learns from this NOT simply get the bus schedule, but how to 'cope' with unforseen circumstances. I say this only because if he sticks around, WHICH I SINCERELY hope he does, then surely something else will happen at a future comp that will require him stepping up under duress. second: i really really love buttle's choreo/presentation and the thoughtfulness of his programs; but not seeing a clean one all season (i think) is starting to actually get on my nerves. so it's in that sense that now I am 'appreciating him' as opposed to enjoying him, yet hoping that will change, maybe for worlds.
 

shine

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 27, 2003
Mafke, what a great post. I agree with you about every skater :rock: Especially Matt Savoie.
 

FreeKatie

On the Ice
Joined
Nov 21, 2005
Mafke said:
I partly blame COP for his [Buttle's] planned fall on the quad (did he seriously think he had a chance of landing it?)

I think he only planned on rotating it to get the 5 points (at least that was what NBC commentators said he was planning to do). He won Bronze over Evan by about 7 points, so it was a good move by Buttle and shows just one of the many flaws of the COP
 
Joined
Aug 3, 2003
Since I agree with almost everything Mafke and Antman said, I should probably quit while I'm ahead. But where there's a mouth, I feel compelled to put a foot in it, especially when it's mine.

Didn't see Klimkin on NBC's stellar coverage. I heard more of Sandra Bezic than I saw of any of the skating. But was SO glad to hear from Mafke that IK did pretty well.

Van der Perrin - The first time I've really liked Kevin. He's always seemed like a Ken doll skater to me before. Nothing bad but nothing to get interested in either. But in the LP, I was thinking, "Wow. I actually like this!" My how the COP affects some people.

Lysacek - The first time I've like Evan at all. He's given "strong" performances of "Carmen" before, but they were, to me, all intense looks, strong arm movements, and hail Mary landed jumps. In the LP, I felt he had true core strength and used it to the max. For me, Lysaceck became the real deal for me in the Torino men's LP.

Savoie - Mafke said, "Best match of choreography and performance all night. Personal favorite performance all night. Sloppy in places. Not the greatest extension in moves that cry out for it, not the greatest centering, but inventive and wonderful and please don't retire. Please. Don't. We need stuff like this" and I can't add a better word to it than to repeat it, except to say, "This guy, like buttah."

Plushenko - As I quote Mafke again, "Has there ever been a more front-loaded choreography free program?" NO! This is the ickiest stuff the COP does to a skater's program, or should I say that a skater does with the COP? How sad, too, because Plushenko's got everything going for him, even Edwin Martone. Imagine how pathetic that thing would have been to the regular "Godfather" soundtrack? But then I saw Plush's choreographer and I know I'm awful to judge on looks, but maybe the guy would choreograph better if he shaved his eyebrows and could see what things looked like. Plush can really move and if he worked with and listened to a real choreographer, what a remarkable style he would have! But no. For once Bezic was right. Jumps, arms, jumps, arms for the first two minutes, then FW and spins for the last two minutes. But like Uncle Dick said, he made the judges believe it. Authority is something Plushenko has mastered. To make a word play on Mafke's, "I can't think of another gold contender who didn't win and then came back to win," I'll say, "I can't think of another gold contender who didn't win and won anyway."

Lambiel - How I love Zee Leetle Preence, but he was a mess, right down to the multicolored zebra shirt. Still, nobody can move like that kid. A male Twyla Tharp on skates and most people watching don't even know what he is, they're just mesmerized, as they should be. But even all his spins were slow except for his last one. I think it's great that Lambiel won silver placing 3rd in the short and 4th in the long. To me that's the beauty of the COP. If you get enough lame skaters close together near the top, the least lame one comes out best, which is what happened to Lambiel. I say it couldn't have happened to a better skater. Besides, we needed somebody who just bawled during the medal ceremony. Weir gave it away in the long and Lysaceck in the short. Why not have Lambiel get the silver off Johnny's headlessness and Even's flu (I know, tough break for Evan).

Weir - Mafke, I'm referring to you this whole post. But I love that you said about Johnny and the quad, "But at worlds you have to try the quad in the LP or shut up about it, choice is up to you." Boy, how true! He was whipping off beauties in practice. He went back to his "deer in the headlights" mode and I thought we'd never see that again. I say more in the thread "Weir missed the bus!" It's mostly about how much more demanding the COP has gotten even since last year, which is why I think "Otonal" would have left Johnny empty handed even with a good performance.

Buttle - Mafke, you didn't get Buttle and I was thrilled with him. But I'm a choreography gal more than a jump one. Besides, I think bronze is the right place for better dancer/skater than skater/dancer. I can't think of anybody else who I would have been happy with in 3rd. I just think Buttle and Wilson are doing the things with the COP that were meant to be done with it. Plus, and I even hate to say this, he told a story. We may care more about fully rotated jumps, but the people in the arena and around the world love a story--told with good to great skating, natch. I loved Buttle in the LP. He was the only one besides Evan who, ro me, really just out and out skated. I have tremendous admiration for Plush and he works the system like hand in glove. But watching his LP while Martone made fire on the fiddle made my head hurt. The Little Prince looked like he was skating on little lambs legs. Only Buttle looked like the right man doing the right job (I wish I could tell you what I almost wrote by mistake :rofl: ) and for that, the bronze was the perfect reward.

I may prefer the skating of others (Weir, Savoie, Klimkin) when they're at their best, but I loved this podium: One prodigy crazy man (Plush); one gifted sweet little boy (Lambiel); and one dancer/skater/storyteller (Buttle). So I like variety packs.

Anyway, ITA with Mafke and Ant about the rest. Call them, "Silence of the Lame." Whoops, almost wrote something naughty again. Bad Rgirl! Bad!

Rgirl
 

kaesie

Rinkside
Joined
Jan 28, 2006
mafke, please become a judge

Mafke,

I think most of agree with most of all that you are saying:clap:

Please become a skating judge so someone with some sense
will put some sense back into what is becoming a senseless
sport.

You are spot on in your analysis of the programs.

And i totally agree with your WEIR comments.

Weir's program was nowhere near meltdown. It was distracted.
But his jumps are oh so perfectly landed and his basic skating
is exceptional.

I think there should be a Matt Savoie stay in skating campaign.
Everyone should send him emails and letters, bouquets even,
for him to remain competitive.
 

clairecloutier

Final Flight
Joined
Aug 27, 2003
I was very surprised with how the men's competition went. Coming into the Olympics, with so many great men competing, I thought we were going to see amazing skating in both the short and long programs. I thought we'd see every guy come out and do his personal best--because everyone knew that's what it would take to beat Plushenko. I was expecting lots of great quads, great footwork, great skating.

Instead it was a mess. Plushenko was the only one who even managed to skate two clean programs. Everyone else seemed to fall apart in either the short or the long (or both!). I was just very surprised. I had really expected a lot more.

Plushenko--A well-deserved gold medal. I was so excited to see him skate so well under the pressure of being the overwhelming favorite. (Such a tough position to be in.) Granted, his long program wasn't nearly as good as his Europeans long program. And I agree the program was very front-loaded. Still, he was clearly the best.

Lambiel--I just wish he had skated better in the long program. At his best, he can be so good. But this program was just uncharacteristically slow and even dull. Very surprising.

Buttle--As another poster said, I appreciate Buttle but do not really enjoy him. There is just something about him that puts me off. I find his 80s hair and costume distracting. It also bothers me that he is so inconsistent technically. None of his jumps seem solid and secure. But nonetheless, his long program was probably the best performance I've seen from him. Great spins and footwork.

Lysacek--A great performance in the long. He really showed some guts out there. A good effort. There is nothing really distinctive about Evan's skating, but I think he's a good competitor.

Weir--I love Johnny and was very disappointed that he didn't skate his best in the long program. The amazing thing is that he is still so incredibly good, even when he doesn't skate his best. I still enjoyed his program greatly, even without the jump content that he failed to include. As someone else said, most other skaters at their best will never be as good as Johnny was in this program. It was a missed opportunity, though, and there is no way around that. I think this performance is going to haunt Johnny a bit, and hopefully in a good way. Hopefully, the painful knowledge that he had a medal in his hands and let it slip away will make him want it all the more the next time. I hope.

Savoie--I'm so proud of him. I've always thought he was a wonderful skater, and it was great to see him do so well at the Olympics. If anything, I thought he probably should have been placed higher.

Takahashi--I really like this skater a lot. I think he just has it all: the speed, the footwork, the jumps, the spins. Again, though, just a subpar performance in this competition, with too many jump mistakes. As with Johnny, I hope he can use this as a learning experience.

Sandhu--What can you even say? He's had disastrous performances before, but this was the worst yet. Such a shame; like Johnny, his talent is incredible, almost off the charts. Very disappointing.

Joubert--Just not a good competition for him. I feel like he needs to rethink his whole approach at this point. He needs to find the kind of program and choreography that will work well with COP; his current choreographic approach isn't helping him.
 
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