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Thread: Why bother watching dance or ladies?

  1. #16
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    The best skaters won in both disciplines. The whining has begun because they were not from this continent. The gold medal winners delivered when it counted. Others did not.

    Vash

  2. #17
    Custom Title Ogre Mage's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman
    Good point about including falls on quads as part of your program. If you really took the scoring system to heart you could plan four quad-splats and really rack up the points.
    The system encourages this kind of strategy and that is a MAJOR flaw. I hate watching a bunch of splatted quads. They need to penalize falls more (in the LP).

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by DORISPULASKI
    From watching men and pairs, we can predict the outcome. Navka and Irina after the short/OD, no matter how they skate, will have such huge PCS that their total score will be impossible to overcome. The other skaters will skate badly, partly in consequence of there being no chance, and partly in consequence of throwing in tricks they can't do because there is no chance that anything they do will affect their slotted PCS score. If doing it right could move your PCS score, Matt Savoie would be ahead of Evan Lysacek and Jeff Buttle. A skater's only hope is to go for impossible Tech scores. And even that doesn't work. In the men's, no one really went for it, other than Buttle and Takahashi planning to fall on a 4t . In pairs, Z&Z and I&B really went for it at least. And at least I&B managed to move up from their slotted 10th/11th, so perhaps there still is some incentive to skaters not yet on top. But not much.

    It wouldn't bother me except for the part of 'No Matter How They Skate'. That wasn't Plush's best ever skate. Heck the 2002 Goebel version was better.

    This is the kind of crap that causes an unbalanced mind to think they have to disable someone to win, because the game is so very, very fixed.
    Plush did not NEED his best ever skate to win. Others made it easy for him. Don't blame him.

    I agree with you about skaters 'planning to fall on a quad' to get partial credit. That rule is ridiculous. The system is in its infancy and is likely to be modified from time to time. A new system needs to be tested over many years, and this one has not been around very long. Ultimately though FS is a subjective sport, and it will have some disagreements. That does not make it less enjoyable to me.

    Vash

  4. #19
    Custom Title Joesitz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vash01
    The best skaters won in both disciplines. The whining has begun because they were not from this continent. The gold medal winners delivered when it counted. Others did not.

    Vash
    Vash - You should think about using the imo. Some of us have not been overwhelmed with the Russian team since the GPs so it is not surprising that we are still underwhelmed.

    It is not unexpected that Russian emigres will continue to root for the mother country. Nothing wrong with that., AND I HAVE NOT READ ONE POST THAT THE RUSSIAN WINS THUS FAR WERE NOT DESERVED. I don't read whinning.

    I think you are reading into this because for some posters an Oly win should bring a celebration. Well, maybe. It's optional.

    Joe

  5. #20
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    judges

    new scoring system, same old lazy judges. I agree Plush should not be getting 8s for components. But I think the component scores for each skater should have more variety. No skater is best at everything & these marks should show their strengths & their weakness. instead of 8.3, 8.9, 8.1, 8.5 we should really be seeing scores that look like 5.8, 7.9, 6.5, 4.9, 8.3 for each skater. I think that is what the system was developed to show. Same ol cheating, bias, lazy judges give same results. I for one thought it was worth sitting through all the disappointing performances to see Shawn Sawer. I like good skating no matter who the skater is.
    Last edited by sk8addict; 02-17-2006 at 11:26 AM.

  6. #21
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    Since when is being honest about flaws in the system considered negative? When my computer crashes, I don't say "well at least my screen saver is beautiful!" I say "This sucks!! Damn Microsoft! Damn them!" Is that negative or human?

    When you plan to put a jump in your program that you cannot land because you will get points without any accountability for completion, there is a problem. I cannot come to work, plan a major event, hire contractors & staff, develop an execution plan and design a totally & completly unique experience while knowing that I cannot deliver. I will not get "Oh Rai! How fabulous & exquiste your design, don't worry about the execution! Your design more than made up for it!" No, I will get "Its been a pleasure working with you. Call us when your execution standards are greater... You're fired!" and I'd hazard a guess that the majority of us would get the same reaction from our bosses as well... A big part of being professional is the ability to deliver.

    I'm sorry, but a beautiful spin position & cute little face will never count for more than hitting it when it counts. Unless its figure skating under the new system.

    Another point, I cannot see a future for competitive skating under this new system when athletes are competiting for silver & bronze vs. gold because one skater is winning by 20 points after one phase of the competition. Where's the excitement & wow with that?!? When you watch a bball game, do you want to see a blow out or a game that's exciting and close? Skating is losing its excitement factor and will continue to lose viewership which equals $$$...

    Yes, I'll watch the Ladies but only to see by how much Irinia wins by... not to see if she wins... and this year that's fine because I love Irinia & feel she deserves to win... but next year? Probably will revert to casual fan status because its boring & a bit shady.

    If the judges aren't accoutable & the skaters aren't accountable, why should I care?

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman
    Still, we can see pretty figure skating any time. The Olympics are supposed to be something special. So far, no, not so much.
    Only a lot of us can't watch figure skating any time..if you don't count the low quality downloads from internet that is.. The olympics is the only time they even bother to mention figure skating in Scandinavian television.

    Another point, I cannot see a future for competitive skating under this new system when athletes are competiting for silver & bronze vs. gold because one skater is winning by 20 points after one phase of the competition. Where's the excitement & wow with that?!? When you watch a bball game, do you want to see a blow out or a game that's exciting and close? Skating is losing its excitement factor and will continue to lose viewership which equals
    It's hardly the only sport were people win with a lot.

    I'll stick with what I said earlier, stop being so negative!
    Last edited by Engwaciriel; 02-17-2006 at 11:54 AM.

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Engwaciriel

    I'll stick with what I said earlier, stop being so negative!
    And I'll stick with what I said earlier, I'm not negative, I'm realistic.

  9. #24
    Always Believed! Sk8n Mama's Avatar
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    When you plan to put a jump in your program that you cannot land because you will get points without any accountability for completion, there is a problem
    If the skater had absolutely no chance of landing it, they wouldn't put it in for exactly what happened with Takahashi's quad. It has to be fully rotated to make it worthwhile. If the skater can fully rotate the jump, then they probably can do it in practice. If they don't fully rotate it and fall, they get credit for a triple + the negative grade of execution for the fall. Takahashi got 1 point for what he did on the quad. He could have done a lot of otehr things, including upping his spins by one or two levels to get more than one point. I think it's a 'you're darned if you do and darned if you don't': people have complained that the system doesn't reward risk taking, then they complain when the system gives a skater something for taking the risk, even if they don't land the jump. Which way do you want it people?

    A lot of the men didn't do what they were capable of in neither the SP or LP. That's nerves, not the judging or the system. It could have easily went the other way with Joubert, Weir, Lambiel, and others all skating clean and making it one heck of an event. Would you blame the system then? It's the Olympics, some people rise to the challenge and some falter. The Russians seem to have the knack for doing it when it counts, so they take the golds. You can't blame the CoP for that. I also think it's unfair to the Russian athletes to claim they've been given gifts after they've been clean and the others not. They did their job-they won. You also can't assume that the women will underperform just because the men did.

    This thread, in my opinion, sounds like a lot of sour grapes.

  10. #25
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    First of all, when is the gold medallist in Dance NEVER not pretty much figured out after the last Worlds?? (OK, Lillehammer was the exception, but that's another rant entirely....). At least this season, IMO, the SILVER and BRONZE in Dance aren't decided as well; I actually think there is going to be a very exciting 6-way race for these medals, and a large part of that is due to COP. Gone, at last, are the days in Dance of 1st in Comp, 1st in OD, 1st in FD, 1st Overall; 2nd in Comp, 2nd in OD, 2nd in FD, 2nd Overall; 3rd in Comp, 3rd in OD, 3rd in FD, 3rd overall; 4th in Comp, 4th in OD.... well, you get the idea. Just because the battle is not necessarily for the GOLD does not make the overall competition any less exciting.

    Same for the ladies. Yeah, Irina's considered a lock for the gold, Sasha probably a lock for the silver, but there doesn't seem to be too solid a consensus for the bronze.

    Besides, by actually WATCHING the competition, dull as the idea may sound due to belief that all is preordained, psychic vision, etc, etc, you miss out on the chance to potentially see some great up-and-comers, tho admittedly as the figures were phased out, you don't just see the "next generation" at the Olys anymore, you pretty much see one or two of them every other competition or so. But still.

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman
    Good point about including falls on quads as part of your program. If you really took the scoring system to heart you could plan four quad-splats and really rack up the points.
    How so? By doing a quad salchow fall, quad salchow fall with combination, quad toe loop fall, and quad toe loop fall with combination? That's more than a little crazy and it would not get as many points as using up the combinations with clean triple-triples or triple-double-doubles. A quad toe loop fall is still only about 5 points and you can gain more points with clean triple jumps. Plus, what if you don't complete the revolutions on a quad (like with Takahashi last night)?... uh-oh, you're screwed.

    So I think one "quad splat" is sufficient strategical points-getting for one program, as Jeff proved.

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vash01
    The best skaters won in both disciplines. The whining has begun because they were not from this continent. The gold medal winners delivered when it counted. Others did not.

    Vash
    But it's still disappointing seeing certain skaters rewarded for things they did not accomplish, like Plushenko with his lack of choreography/interpretation/transition, and other skaters not recieving the credit they deserve.

    Plushenko deserved to win because his competitors fell apart, but not by that huge a margin. It was not even Plushenko's best skate ever (not even close), let alone the best skate in the history of the new system. The same goes for T/M. It wasn't their best skate this season let alone their best skate ever let alone THE best pairs skate ever!

  13. #28
    and... World Peace! Tonichelle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sk8n Mama
    Why bother watching? For guys like Evan Lysacek who gave every ounce he had in the LP. For guys like Buttle who have worked their butts off for this. For the Zhangs who Lord only knows how continued on inthe LP after that fall. For Shen and Zhao who didn't practice the SBS jumps til they got to Torino and still wowed the crowd and won the bronze. For Sasha Cohen who will try like heck to break her curse. For Emily Hughes and Kimmie Meissner who will wow at their first Olympics. For Dubreuil and Lauzon who keep working and working and moved to France just to move as much as possible in the dance discipline. Do I need to go on?



    exactly!!!

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vash01
    The best skaters won in both disciplines. The whining has begun because they were not from this continent. The gold medal winners delivered when it counted. Others did not.

    Vash
    The "whining" began when the rightful winners bored the hell out of people. I loved Yagudin. He delivered the good stuff. Plushenko and T&M delivered enough to win.

    DORISPULASKI:
    Don't force yourself to be positive. It's horrible for you. "Get it out of your system and then let it go" has always been my strategy. There's no point in letting things go bitter.
    Last edited by SusanBeth; 02-17-2006 at 01:32 PM.

  15. #30
    It's all about Plushenko.
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    I kind of like to watch skating, even if the outcome is fixed. For me, it's about great skating, not medals.

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