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Thread: Why bother watching dance or ladies?

  1. #31
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sk8n Mama
    This thread, in my opinion, sounds like a lot of sour grapes.
    Is there a term for "sour grapes in advance?" I for one am willing to wait until the dance and women's skating actually happens. Then I'll start in on the sour grapes.

  2. #32
    Wicked Yankee Girl dorispulaski's Avatar
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    Vash--
    The best skaters won in both disciplines. The whining has begun because they were not from this continent. The gold medal winners delivered when it counted. Others did not.
    i

    Wrong. What's really bothering me this morning is Buttle being on the podium again with 2 crappy skates. And I thought Pang and Tong really deserved the bronze even though I love Shen and Zhao. Last I knew, Canada was in North America and China was not. And Savoie was lots better than Lysacek.

    Of course, if it's necessary to skate with a calculator strapped to your arm, an engineering student like Buttle is a good bet to game the system the best--Mr Ski says that his best trick though is his smile at the end and his aura of Didn't I do wonderfully well? He dazzles the judges with that.

    And as Joesitz said, no one is claiming the right winners didn't win. If they're complaining about the system it is mostly about the places 10 through 2.

    So I'm not whining, I'm ranting. And I'm worrying about the future of a sport I've loved since watching Carol Heiss in the 1956 Olympics.

    As to watching up and comers, the Olympics is not the place to see them. You see them at the Grand Prix, the Jr Grand Prix, the various nationals, Nebelhorn, Karl Schaefer, the club competitions, etc. etc. If this was the first you saw Shawn Sawyer, you missed his performance as an 11 yr old in the Toller Cranston retirement tribute. You missed his COR skate last season, too. You could have seen Emily Hughes at the Liberty Open, and before that in 2003 in US Nationals falling on every jump. You could have seen Kimmie Meissner win Jrs at US Nationals in Atlanta. You could have seen Volosozhar and Morozov at Karl Schaeffer this year and Euros last year. You could have seen Savchenko and Szolkowy at 2004 COR giving a bronze medal performance. You could have seen Dube and Davison on the Jr Grand Prix. You could do all of this through the magic of internet downloads...even years after these events...or you could have gone to summer competitions or the Grand Prix competitons.

    This Olympics reminds me why I have never spent the money to go to Olympics. Too political, and too hard on the skaters for most of them to skate their best. So this isn't the best venue for the best skating IMO. Now worlds...I can't help it, I've always liked watching worlds and I probably always will. Because I do see skaters I've never seen before there...and often times someone I don't expect to will really rise to the occasion.

    Sure there are Olympics that I'm sorry I missed. I would have loved to have seen the men and the pairs at Calgary. I would have loved to see the men and the pairs at SLC-so much good skating there from 6th place upwards.

    This Olympics??? No. At least not so far.
    Last edited by dorispulaski; 02-17-2006 at 05:16 PM.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by DORISPULASKI
    In the men's, no one really went for it, other than Buttle and Takahashi planning to fall on a 4t . In pairs, Z&Z and I&B really went for it at least. And at least I&B managed to move up from their slotted 10th/11th, so perhaps there still is some incentive to skaters not yet on top. But not much.

    It wouldn't bother me except for the part of 'No Matter How They Skate'. That wasn't Plush's best ever skate. Heck the 2002 Goebel version was better.

    .
    So funny.

    Yeah I agree no one really went for it in men. But in pairs, aside above two teams I thought Pang/Tong also went for it. Never saw they skated like that since 2004 worlds.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman
    About Belbin and Agosto, yeah the ISU boxed themselves into a corner on that one. They thought, we can safely give them a silver medal at worlds because they can't go to the Olympics anyway. Oops. Now the ISU will have to use a little more ingenuity to make it all come out right.
    Hey, you 'steal' my last season's theory posted at this board. :chorus:


    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman
    But on the bright side, if the U.S. does not medal in dance, they will have to put Sasha on the podium.
    I agree with this.

    See where B/A placed after CD? 6th place! (I know, I know the spreaded margines were really small among top 6, but from this you can guess where the trend goes.)

  5. #35
    On Edge Piel's Avatar
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    For Doris

    Blame it on Bush. Why can't he grow a pair and buy us some FS medals? At least Clinton would have asked the lady judges out for drinks and tried something!

  6. #36
    Custom Title 76olympics's Avatar
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    Doris, I don't think you are bitter. I think your points are good. Matt was the highlight of the night. He had a complete program, he was far and away the most artistic (though I liked Shawn Sawyer too), but he doesn't get rewarded for it. It is a bit wearing.

    Plushenko is a great jumper. Mentally, he does not let competition distract him as Sandu and Weir do. I am not arguing with his win. But-his artistry is ...not there. Dick is on the money with the flailing arms thing he has pointed out for these many years.

    I enjoy the Olympics. But, I scratched my head over the scoring many years ago and that hasn't changed.

  7. #37
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    Since I was the one to first use the term "bitter", I thought that I should clarify. I meant, keeping your mouth shut and faking the positive attitude can turn things bitter. Repressed resentments do not go away easily. I didn't mean that anyone in this thread sounded bitter. So go ahead and say what you think.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by DORISPULASKI
    Vash-- i

    Wrong. What's really bothering me this morning is Buttle being on the podium again with 2 crappy skates. And I thought Pang and Tong really deserved the bronze even though I love Shen and Zhao. Last I knew, Canada was in North America and China was not. And Savoie was lots better than Lysacek.

    Of course, if it's necessary to skate with a calculator strapped to your arm, an engineering student like Buttle is a good bet to game the system the best--Mr Ski says that his best trick though is his smile at the end and his aura of Didn't I do wonderfully well? He dazzles the judges with that.

    And as Joesitz said, no one is claiming the right winners didn't win. If they're complaining about the system it is mostly about the places 10 through 2.

    So I'm not whining, I'm ranting. And I'm worrying about the future of a sport I've loved since watching Carol Heiss in the 1956 Olympics.

    As to watching up and comers, the Olympics is not the place to see them. You see them at the Grand Prix, the Jr Grand Prix, the various nationals, Nebelhorn, Karl Schaefer, the club competitions, etc. etc. If this was the first you saw Shawn Sawyer, you missed his performance as an 11 yr old in the Toller Cranston retirement tribute. You missed his COR skate last season, too. You could have seen Emily Hughes at the Liberty Open, and before that in 2003 in US Nationals falling on every jump. You could have seen Kimmie Meissner win Jrs at US Nationals in Atlanta. You could have seen Volosozhar and Morozov at Karl Schaeffer this year and Euros last year. You could have seen Savchenko and Szolkowy at 2004 COR giving a bronze medal performance. You could have seen Dube and Davison on the Jr Grand Prix. You could do all of this through the magic of internet downloads...even years after these events...or you could have gone to summer competitions or the Grand Prix competitons.

    This Olympics reminds me why I have never spent the money to go to Olympics. Too political, and too hard on the skaters for most of them to skate their best. So this isn't the best venue for the best skating IMO. Now worlds...I can't help it, I've always liked watching worlds and I probably always will. Because I do see skaters I've never seen before there...and often times someone I don't expect to will really rise to the occasion.

    Sure there are Olympics that I'm sorry I missed. I would have loved to have seen the men and the pairs at Calgary. I would have loved to see the men and the pairs at SLC-so much good skating there from 6th place upwards.

    This Olympics??? No. At least not so far.
    I thought Buttle's LP was pretty respectable, inspite of the fall on 4t and a hand down on the 3A. I thought he was overmarked in the SP. I would have placed Matt higher than him. I believe Buttle won the bronze only because Joubert blew it (the LP in particular) and Evan blew the SP. The chips just fell in Buttle's favor.

    I would have placed Pang & Tong and Shen & Zhao higher than Zhang & Zhang (and I won't get into a debate over it again). P&T made some mistakes initially, then recovered and skated well. S&Z looked more developed, and I had no problem with their higher placement than P&T. It is possible that S&Z were given the benefit of doubt as past world champions, and Hongbo's come back from injury.

    I don't feel frustrated by these disagreements. I can still enjoy the Olympics. FS is a complex sport. There is no perfect system, but I do expect the current one to get better, given enough time. No, it won't satisfy EVERYONE, but it will get better.

    Vash

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joesitz
    Vash - You should think about using the imo. Some of us have not been overwhelmed with the Russian team since the GPs so it is not surprising that we are still underwhelmed.

    It is not unexpected that Russian emigres will continue to root for the mother country. Nothing wrong with that., AND I HAVE NOT READ ONE POST THAT THE RUSSIAN WINS THUS FAR WERE NOT DESERVED. I don't read whinning.

    I think you are reading into this because for some posters an Oly win should bring a celebration. Well, maybe. It's optional.

    Joe
    I thought we were all just expressing our opinions. What is the point having to use IMO every time? I cannot commit to it. I will express my opinion, and I don't expect everyone to agree with it.

    Vash

  10. #40
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    The only reason I am watching the dance and ladies is to if Irina or Shizuka come through in the womens with a performance of a lifetime, no matter what the ridiculous judges do, and to see what judging farce comes up after seeing the awful judging in pairs and mens, although thankfully the right people won.

    Buttle did not benefit from anybody's mistakes. Evan would have still been 4th even with a clean short, and his extreme overscoring. When you add the 9 points he gains from his mistakes in the short, and then deduct the 2 points or more he loses in PCS by skating with more polished skaters in the last flight he still falls short of Buttle's total even with all his mistakes. Joubert has never scored high enough to catch Buttle, his best long program ever is a 147+ and he would have needed a 149+ to catch Buttle. Even with all his mistakes there is nobody who could have taken the bronze from Buttle.

  11. #41
    Down With It
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    The more I think about it, the more I believe the original poster is right. This is a real disappointment. When one can predict the outcome so easily, where's the fun? where's the suspense? And even worse, we have to deal with a six-hour period where we have to watch out or we get spoiled.

  12. #42
    Custom Title Joesitz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vash01
    I thought we were all just expressing our opinions. What is the point having to use IMO every time? I cannot commit to it. I will express my opinion, and I don't expect everyone to agree with it. Vash
    ITA. I've been nailed to the cross for not using it.

    Joe

  13. #43
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    Evan bashing

    Quote Originally Posted by slutskayafan21
    The only reason I am watching the dance and ladies is to if Irina or Shizuka come through in the womens with a performance of a lifetime, no matter what the ridiculous judges do, and to see what judging farce comes up after seeing the awful judging in pairs and mens, although thankfully the right people won.

    Buttle did not benefit from anybody's mistakes. Evan would have still been 4th even with a clean short, and his extreme overscoring. When you add the 9 points he gains from his mistakes in the short, and then deduct the 2 points or more he loses in PCS by skating with more polished skaters in the last flight he still falls short of Buttle's total even with all his mistakes. Joubert has never scored high enough to catch Buttle, his best long program ever is a 147+ and he would have needed a 149+ to catch Buttle. Even with all his mistakes there is nobody who could have taken the bronze from Buttle.
    Are you the male morgan lee? You sure do bash Evan alot.

  14. #44
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    You can see it now. Irinia and Carolina will fight for the Gold Medal. Everyone else will fight Fontania for Bronze.

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Red Dog
    The more I think about it, the more I believe the original poster is right. This is a real disappointment. When one can predict the outcome so easily, where's the fun? where's the suspense? And even worse, we have to deal with a six-hour period where we have to watch out or we get spoiled.
    Judging by the compulsory dance, can we really predict the outcome of the dance?

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