Did we figure out the Takahashi TES yet?

[Sk8n Mama]

We were talking about this on the men's LP thread yesterday. Did anyone figure out why the lutz wasn't counted? I watched NBC last night just to see if they said anything because CBC didn't mention anything, but NBC didn't catch it either.

[RealtorGal]

I don't know the answer to your question, but I think that this is the guy to watch over the next four years. He has the "wow" factor already at age 19! I cannot take my eyes off him when he skates. Lyrical and passionate, just an amazing skater with incredible potential.

[childfreegirl]

We were talking about this on the men's LP thread yesterday. Did anyone figure out why the lutz wasn't counted? I watched NBC last night just to see if they said anything because CBC didn't mention anything, but NBC didn't catch it either.

Are you talking about the jump after the 3l? I thought that was a 3t. The only L that is listed in the protocols is the 3L in combo with the 3t. I may have to go back and look at that tape again. That wasn't the greatest of camera angels that I saw.

[Sk8n Mama]

On the ISU site, it lists the triple lutz with a star as 'element excuted but not counted' and NBC's protocals say "invalid element". We were all trying to figure out the lutz was invalid as he hadn't done another lutz prior to that.

[slutskayafan21]

It is just an example of the phoniness of the new system. The judges can do whatever they want, and their marks for specific areas can be blurred behind the complexities of the new system. They dont have to justify any of their scoring or how it is arrived at. Takahashi having some of his elements discounted should be explained to the media and fans.

[bethissoawesome]

It really seemed like they were robbing Takahashi of a better placement. I'm not saying he should have wound up on the podium for these two programs, but he definitely should have been higher! I was even confused in the short program when his footwork got called as level 3's when they had been called as level 4's (and the only level 4's) all season (as far as I know, and as far as the commentators said), yet Plushy got the level 4 footworks? Hmm... He was really the only skater who had any consistent "wow" factor during his programs. I look forward to watching him skate in the future :D Come 2010, he could be quite the force to reackon with.

[slutskayafan21]

There might have been some backlash for what happened at Japanese Nationals. That is not fair, what happened at Japanese Nationals was wrong but it is not his fault. He deserved to be judged fairly at the Olympics but was not.

[CDMM1991]

I don't think it was a "wuzrobbing". If they were going to be dishonest, they would hide it a bit more. I'm still trying to figure this out.

[Kasey]

I think because he had already repeated the axel and the 3 toe....he could not repeat another triple jump in the program and have it count, so the final lutz counted as zero.

[Sylvia]

I think because he had already repeated the axel and the 3 toe....he could not repeat another triple jump in the program and have it count, so the final lutz counted as zero.

Correct. The quad toe (downgraded to a triple) wasn't the issue here but it was the attempted triple toe loop (downgraded to double) on the end of the second triple axel that counted as the second triple toe.

You can read the detailed protocol of the Men's FS at:
http://www.isufs.org/results/owg2006..._FS_Scores.pdf

[Sk8n Mama]

Okay. I'm still trying to figure out CoP sometimes. I don't think they were robbing him of anything. They spent forever getting those marks up and were obviously checking the landing on the quad and figuring out whether or not the lutz had to be taken out. I think the ISU wants this scored as cleanly as possible to gain a little credibility.

[Engwaciriel]

Correct. The quad toe (downgraded to a triple) wasn't the issue here but it was the attempted triple toe loop (downgraded to double) on the end of the second triple axel that counted as the second triple toe.

You can read the detailed protocol of the Men's FS at:
http://www.isufs.org/results/owg2006..._FS_Scores.pdf

But if it was downgraded, why did it count as a triple toe?

[Sylvia]

But if it was downgraded, why did it count as a triple toe?

Because it's the planned/intended number of rotations that is counted (otherwise it wouldn't be fair to the skater since they wouldn't know while they're skating the program whether or not their jump was going to be downgraded later). Ironically, Takahashi's extra repeated jump mistake in the FS is the same one that cost Nobunari Oda the gold medal at Japanese Nationals and gave Takahashi the Olympic berth.

[Sk8n Mama]

Ironically, Takahashi's extra repeated jump mistake in the FS is the same one that cost Nobunari Oda the gold medal at Japanese Nationals and gave Takahashi the Olympic berth.

Wow, that is fate coming back to bite him in the butt!

[sk8addict]

It is just an example of the phoniness of the new system. The judges can do whatever they want, and their marks for specific areas can be blurred behind the complexities of the new system. They dont have to justify any of their scoring or how it is arrived at. Takahashi having some of his elements discounted should be explained to the media and fans.

And the old 6.0 system didn't let them do whatever they wanted with ordinals? Takashi got to the olympics by the new system working. After he was in 2nd at japanese Nationals they reviewed the scores & awarded him 1st.