Where would Kwan have finished? | Page 3 | Golden Skate

Where would Kwan have finished?

Where would Kwan have finished the competition?

  • Gold

    Votes: 56 34.1%
  • Silver

    Votes: 13 7.9%
  • Bronze

    Votes: 20 12.2%
  • No medal, but top 5

    Votes: 43 26.2%
  • No top 5, but top 8

    Votes: 16 9.8%
  • top 10

    Votes: 16 9.8%

  • Total voters
    164
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
Zuranthium said:
It would be hard to beat someone with 2 Triple-Triples and a Triple Axle. But how many women are able to do that consistently?
A little bit off topic on this Michelle thread, but that's the main thing that I look forward to checking out in the coming season. Kimmie did two triple-triples -- once in her career. She also did a triple Axel (sort of) -- once.

Mao Asada does have a fairly reliable, if not 100%, triple Axel, but does she have anything else?

Slutskaya, Arakawa, Cohen, Meissner, fine skaters one and all. Among them they won four World championships. Michelle won five. IMHO, we will never see her equal.

MM :)
 

nymkfan51

Medalist
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
I'm just chiming in on this one for the first time.
My feelings right after the competition ... and even moreso now ... are that this ironically could have been Michelle's best chance at the gold. In '98 and '02 she was unlucky enough to compete against two teenagers who gave their skates-of-a-lifetime on that one night. But in Torino the winning performance was a 5 triple (3/3 less) program. I'm of the belief that had she not reinjured herself that day, she could certainly have delievered at least a 5 triple inspired program. Of course we can never know for sure, but this one haunts me.

And I am bewildered about the talk of her spiral not being able to compete with those of a Sasha or Shizuka. MK's COE is by far the best I have ever seen. She has speed, strength of edges and beautiful postitions. I think the reports we got from the test skate were that her spirals were at a level 4 ... and even some of her spins for that matter.
I'll take Michelle's gorgeous spiral anyday, over someone grabbing their skate and yanking their foot up to their head. Call me crazy! :p
 

Zuranthium

Match Penalty
Joined
Mar 30, 2006
Mathman said:
A little bit off topic on this Michelle thread, but that's the main thing that I look forward to checking out in the coming season. Kimmie did two triple-triples -- once in her career. She also did a triple Axel (sort of) -- once.

Mao Asada does have a fairly reliable, if not 100%, triple Axel, but does she have anything else?

Well Mao Asada is the best jumper right now, imo. In addition to the Axel, she is very gifted with doing Loop jumps...she can almost to do a Quad Loop. Her best program would probably be:

3Axel/2 Toe/2Loop
3Axel
3Lutz/3Loop/2Toe
-----(halfway point)-----
3Sal/3Toe/2Loop
3Flip
3Lutz
2Axel

I'd like to see Kimmie try this as competition:

3Flip/3Loop/2Toe (I'm not sure if she can do that....)
3Axel
3Lutz/3Toe/2Loop
----(halfway point)----
3Flip
3Lutz
3Sal
2Axel/2Toe/2Loop

ASADA would still be ahead by 2.3 base points but perhaps Kimmie will mature into a more artistic skater than Mao does and be able to win on PCS points.

I wonder if Mao can do a Quad Toe, however. Adding that in would pretty much shut the door on everyone else.
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
Before she can try a quad toe she first has to learn to do a triple toe. Strangely enough, this is the jump that gives her the most trouble. She pre-rotates it so much that it turns into a toe-Axel. The reason that she started putting loops on the end of her combos is that her toe loops were being downgraded. This seems to be a serious flaw in her basic technique on this element. I am not sure if it can be corrected at this point.

That 3A/2T/2Lo that you put in her program would be a challenge, because the middle jump might be downgraded to a single for pre-rotation.

The other jump that she can't do is the Salchow. She did not have a triple toe or a triple Salchow in last season's LP.

In particular, that 3Sal/3Toe/2Loop combo you are giving her -- I don't think so.

About the loop, yes indeed, that's one she can do. Her LP last season (by the time of Junior Worlds) had 3Lo, 3Lo+2Lo+2Lo, 3F+2Lo, and 3Lz+2Lo.

Fortunately for Mao, the CoP does not reward a skater for presenting all the triples, nor is there a penalty for tacking a bunch of double loops onto every element, so she should score well despite having an incomplete jump arsenal.

On the other hand, if she can do 3A+2Lo and solo 3A, that gives her a big boost out of the box.

MM :)

PS. BTW, I think you can do only one three-jump combination.
 
Last edited:

Zuranthium

Match Penalty
Joined
Mar 30, 2006
Mathman said:
PS. BTW, I think you can do only one three-jump combination.

I wasn't aware of that...oops. It's a good rule, though. I actually think it should be amended even further to say that any jump past the second has to be different from the one that preceded it...so no 2Toe/2Toe or 2Loop/2Loop at the end of a jump -- it must be a mix.

That's so weird about the 3Sal and 3Toe for Mao. Watching her 3Flip/3Toe combination again...yeah, that's a wonky 3Toe. She just barely misses the 2.75 rotations. I always knew it looked weird but I had to see the slow-mo to realize it was not correct.

Surely she will get those jumps for next season? It would be the weirdest thing ever not to be able to perfect them when you can do a beautiful 3Axle and 3Lutz/3Loop combination.
 

Eeyora

Final Flight
Joined
Aug 4, 2003
Funny I was thinking about this today. If it were Kwan at her prime with seven triple jumps or even six. She would be able to get at least gold. If she incorperated level 3's and 4's. If it was a five triple jump program she would at leaszt be second. The issue more would be with the levels.
 
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