Shizuka's A La Seconde | Golden Skate

Shizuka's A La Seconde

Joined
Jul 11, 2003
In the Black Swan Pas de Deux, Odile lifts her leg to the side and the best of the ballerinas get it up close to the ear. Let's go of the Prince and holds it in that position until the audience finishes their ooohs and ahhhs, and then turns it into an arabesque (spiral)

Just about impossible on skates but Shizuka, although lifting her leg up to the Y position right up to her ear during the spiral sequence, let go of the leg and for moments held her foot in that 'Y to the ear' position before turning it into a spiral.

If she didn't get a GoE +3 for that execution, the judges are, imo, inept on flexibility, and difficulty.

Joe
 

hockeyfan228

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Problem was, after she let go of her skate, she lost her front-to-back balance just a tad. (You could see her jutting out her abdomen to try to keep the position.) So it wouldn't have warranted a +3GOE.

I preferred the spiral sequence from her earlier SP, which she did repeatedly this season, solid as a rock.
 

CDMM1991

Medalist
Joined
Jun 3, 2005
I too appreciate the INCREDIBLE combination of strength and flexibility that Shiz demonstrated with that element. Maybe you'd have to skate yourself to fully appreciate how incredibly difficult an element like that would be.
 

kyla2

Final Flight
Joined
Jan 24, 2004
Ita

ITA Joe. It was one of the most awesome moves I have seen in figure skating. Love Shizuka.
 

julietvalcouer

Final Flight
Joined
Sep 10, 2005
I honestly think she does her spiral a bit better than Sasha does hers. There's just a bit more finish to it, that little extra something in the presentation.

Joe--when will see the equivalent of Odile's 32 fuette (sp? You know what I mean) turns in skating, though? I wish I were a good enough spinner to figure out if whipping the leg in and out is at all feasible...
 
Joined
Jul 11, 2003
I've been thinking about calling the move in skating terms as 'Shizuka's No Hold Y Spiral' instead of a la seconde.

Can anyone explain Sasha's straight leg to the ear spiral where she also turns a quarter or so on the ice. I believe she holds the leg up? Am I correct?

Juliet - I can't see 32 fuertes(sp) in figure skating because the skating blade does not permit any movement of the instep. However, I have seen v.d.Perren do a few faux fuertes(sp) while skating in a circle. With the music it looks great.

Joe
 

antmanb

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 5, 2004
Joesitz said:
In the Black Swan Pas de Deux, Odile lifts her leg to the side and the best of the ballerinas get it up close to the ear. Let's go of the Prince and holds it in that position until the audience finishes their ooohs and ahhhs, and then turns it into an arabesque (spiral)

Just about impossible on skates but Shizuka, although lifting her leg up to the Y position right up to her ear during the spiral sequence, let go of the leg and for moments held her foot in that 'Y to the ear' position before turning it into a spiral.

If she didn't get a GoE +3 for that execution, the judges are, imo, inept on flexibility, and difficulty.

Joe

:clap: :clap: :clap:

I couldn't agree more and you know what despite the tiny balance check when she let go i think she still deserves a +3 because the edge didn't wobble once throughout any of the sprial sequence...if i see one more change edge spiral where the skater "wipes" the blade madly from left to right or right to left to get the change i'll go mad. Those horrible changes of edge create the image in my mind of a driver changnig lanes on the motorway by yanking the wheel across instead of slowly calmy floating into the next lane with very little movement of the steering wheel. YUK!

Ant
 

antmanb

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 5, 2004
Joesitz said:
In the Black Swan Pas de Deux, Odile lifts her leg to the side and the best of the ballerinas get it up close to the ear. Let's go of the Prince and holds it in that position until the audience finishes their ooohs and ahhhs, and then turns it into an arabesque (spiral)

Just about impossible on skates but Shizuka, although lifting her leg up to the Y position right up to her ear during the spiral sequence, let go of the leg and for moments held her foot in that 'Y to the ear' position before turning it into a spiral.

If she didn't get a GoE +3 for that execution, the judges are, imo, inept on flexibility, and difficulty.

Joe

For the record she got five +2s and the rest +1s.

Sasha got two +3s for hers and in my opinion that's ridiculous. Cohen's spiral sequence was very good but it wasn't even in the same league as Shizuka's.

Ant
 
Joined
Jul 11, 2003
antmanb said:
For the record she got five +2s and the rest +1s.

Sasha got two +3s for hers and in my opinion that's ridiculous. Cohen's spiral sequence was very good but it wasn't even in the same league as Shizuka's.

Ant
It's all about 'branding' elements of a skater. If a skater has executed underrotated jumps and gets branded, she will still be considered as underrotating a perfectly good jump landing.

Sasha's spirals are branded as wow and great as they should be, but if another skater has demonstrated equal if not better, but is not known for that element, then extra credit, imo, will not be given. Keeps the judges from not too much thinking.

CoP needs a lot of work, not just a casual tweeking. With scores so close as they were in the Ladies SP, a tenth of a point is important. The results of the upcoming LP, may well be like having a winner with only .1 point from the nearest competitor(s).

Joe
 

tarotx

On the Ice
Joined
Aug 30, 2005
Sasha is the one that did a traditional Spiral and she was rewarded for it. All of her changes were distinct. Shizuka brings her leg up to her head with her hands. Although it's wonderful it can't be comapred to when a ballerina rises her leg. A dancer usually does it with out assist and she's on toe.

Also at lest during the short program Sasha had a more stable edge, more musicality and personality as she did her spiral sequence. Shizuka had deeper edges although not really more speed. And even though Sasha had a shallow edge she had nice flow and energy.
 

gkelly

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
julietvalcouer said:
when will see the equivalent of Odile's 32 fuette (sp? You know what I mean) turns in skating, though? I wish I were a good enough spinner to figure out if whipping the leg in and out is at all feasible...

It's possible, I can do it (2 or 3 before I lose balance, never 32!!), but it's more like a twizzle or quick traveling threes than a real backspin, i.e., travels slightly with each turn. I'd have to make them turn quicker and/or cover more ice to be worth putting in a step sequence.

Occasionally you see skaters do one or two in the middle of a step sequence. Maybe someday someone will figure out how to make them stay in one place for a spin. I doubt you'd ever see 32 or even more than 4 in a row except in a ballet-themed exhibition.
 

guinevere

Final Flight
Joined
Jul 28, 2003
Successful fouette turns require the 'snap' of the working foot into passe to be really glam and effective (helps with centering, too). Kind of hard to do fast with a blade ;) It would be an awesome thing to see on ice, although I don't know that it would get valued as much as it would deserve.

I loved, love, LOVED Shizuka's spiral move!!! It made my abs hurt :lol: because I know hard hard that is to do - even on foot!! I do understand why Sasha got higher GOE's, though. Arakawa's balance check was quite noticeable - although I am sure she can eliminate the need for it with practice - and one thing I have always given Sasha immense credit (and props) for is the strength and control with which she executes all of her spiral moves. Right now, Shizuka has an awesome sequence of spirals, while Sasha has a seamless movement phrase that includes several incredible spirals. Again, I think it's only a matter of practice for Shizuka to achieve the same level of performance quality in her spirals as Sasha has.
 

bethissoawesome

On the Ice
Joined
Dec 12, 2005
grande battement a la seconde :love: :love: :love: It takes YEARS of training in ballet and incredible strength to lift the leg like that... I doubt anyone will ever do it completely free of hands on ice, but for Shizuka just to even be able to let go in that position... amazing. :clap: :clap: :clap:
 

guinevere

Final Flight
Joined
Jul 28, 2003
Whee! Exquisite in the LP!! Too bad the NBC camera angle wasn't as good as for the SP...
 

antmanb

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 5, 2004
tarotx said:
Sasha is the one that did a traditional Spiral and she was rewarded for it. All of her changes were distinct. Shizuka brings her leg up to her head with her hands. Although it's wonderful it can't be comapred to when a ballerina rises her leg. A dancer usually does it with out assist and she's on toe.

And since this is figure skating and not ballet the greatest importance ni all of these moves is the smooth running edge of the blade and spped and flow across the ice. Cohen did distinctly change edges - it was one of the obvious "wipes" i've described above, Shizuka's was a slow beauitufl easy transition from one edge to the next, and she not only let go and held her leg up that high unsupported she also did the fan sprial which ends in a traditional back sprial position, What she maybe gave away to cohen in amplitutde she more than made up for in speed and depth of edge.

tarotx said:
Also at lest during the short program Sasha had a more stable edge, more musicality and personality as she did her spiral sequence. Shizuka had deeper edges although not really more speed. And even though Sasha had a shallow edge she had nice flow and energy.

Really? I would be inclined to disagree about speed - i wasn't watching live but on TV Shizuka looked faster and smoother during teh sprial sequence and ou commentators noted her speed compared to there being no comment on Sasha's speed.

Ant
 

antmanb

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 5, 2004
julietvalcouer said:
I honestly think she does her spiral a bit better than Sasha does hers. There's just a bit more finish to it, that little extra something in the presentation.

Joe--when will see the equivalent of Odile's 32 fuette (sp? You know what I mean) turns in skating, though? I wish I were a good enough spinner to figure out if whipping the leg in and out is at all feasible...

Maybe a twizzle sequence could be done to imitate this? I think it would kill a spin dead because bringing the leg in quickly would speed you up very quickly and then pulling the leg out again would upset the way the spin works, but with twizzles since you're travelling across the ice it might be more feasible?

Ant
 
Joined
Jul 11, 2003
Shizuka's speed is deceiving. Like Yuka Sato, her stroking is so silent that one doesn't think of speed as one does with say, Kat Witt, who made an issue of speed during her programs.

Shizuka covers the ice with incredible stroking and speed,and it is all with the music.

And that no hands Y spiral is special. There will be lots in juniors next year, I bet.

Joe
 
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