Musical Selection

At risk of a ballet diversion, I'd say that figure skating should most closely look at ABT's philosophy, which could be simplified as "There's a place for Petipa's ethnic dances and variations in a story-structure ballet, and there's a place for Ballanchine and his plotless ballets that are about pure movement in space. Just because you dance one does not mean you can NEVER EVER dance the other." In figure skating, there's a place for technical demands and a place for artistry. The problem is not so much it's more limited in what's possible but that in ballet the only limits are what the public or sponsors will pay to see. In eligible skating, the limits are what the judges reward. If they insist on rewarding skaters who are apparently tone-deaf, or in my opinion worse, skaters who take a piece of music and "interpret" it in a way that makes absolutely no sense, then artistry and musicality will become increasingly less important until it really is just a trick contest.

And note that, according to Farrell (who, despite the well-known rift over her marriage, has always been very devoted to Mr. B's dance philosophy) even Ballanchine said that there was some music that wasn't dancible, because it wasn't composed with any sort of movement in mind. So new/unusued isn't necessarily better.

As you can probably tell, I am a bit of a fan of Mr. B myself, though really I don't always ENJOY his ballets. (Honestly, even the one most non-balletomanes are probably familiar with, his 'Nutcracker', is not a favorite of mine. I prefer the Royal Ballet's staging.) I think a certain degree of what he did could actually translate to the ice, not literally but philosophically--it's about making shapes in space with the human body. I wonder what he might have done, as while you can't do pointe work in skates, you can do other things that are impossible in dance shoes--like a smooth glide backwards in arabesque (ie a spiral.) The speed and smoothness in skating creates a new dimension you don't have in ballet.

Excellent responses! You folks are so brilliant. Couple thoughts:

» I get the sense that a lot of folks conflate the concept of figure skating artistry/choreography with dance disciplines. It's easy to do so when there's amazing, unique organizations like the Ice Theatre of New York [I took many of their classes during my own skating career]. I'd like to keep this discussion from veering into ballet. While there are similarities between the two disciplines, I don't feel it makes for sound analysis. By exploiting the physics of steel blades, skating opens the potential for movement not found in other media.

» However, it is interesting to consider Balanchine's study of music and how it enhanced his discipline. Looking back at my own career, I can say that dance classes were a supplement to my training, not music lessons. I am curious to know if this practice occurs within figure skating regularly. If it did, would perspectives on music selection change within the sport?

» It's interesting to note that a lot of what's considered "challenging" (Yanni) here would be considered by music scholars as incredibly pedestrian. [ Actually, one of my colleagues commented, "How thoroughly middle-class!" Mind you, he's got a PhD in 16th century music, so I take his remarks with a grain of salt.] In my mind, if someone told me they were going to use challenging music, I'd think they were going to adapt a piece by an avant guarde composer like Glenn Branca. How does one choreograph a symphony for 100 guitars, anyway?

And what of "Rockit"? In terms of hip-hop, it's a golden oldie, but it's seemingly the only piece of music from the genre that's acceptable for performance. Why is that? What are your feelings about it? Why is pop music seemingly unacceptable and/or cordoned to the realm of exhibition?

» I feel this brings us back to the original questions I asked, about why musical selection is important. And so, I'm going to share with you the abstract to the paper I'm writing:

http://www.emplive.org/visit/education/popConfBio.asp?xPopConfBioID=716&year=2006

As always, your thoughts are appreciated.

Balanchine began his choreographic career as a student using non-traditional music for classical ballet, but when he joined the Ballets Russe with the troupe of four who left Russia together on a "European tour," Bronislava Nijinska had just stormed out, and Diaghilev hired him to choreograph the scores that SD commissioned from Stravinsky, Prokofiev, and other contempory composers. It was Diaghilev's taste and money (sparse as it was) that drove the artistic vision that was much to Balanchine's liking.

Balanchine liked music he called "musique dansant." He was happy to use scores that weren't first rate in themselves, but that lent themselves to dance. He thought Beethoven undanceable, unlike Massine who did ballets to big classical scores -- Beethoven's Seventh Symphony was one of his longer lasting and most lauded works -- and that, in general, one could only mar Mozart and Bach by dancing to their music. (Although most people who've seen Divertimento No. 15 and Concerto Barocco would disagree. These ballets could be the exception to the rule.)

He did not believe in cutting up movements in general, but he did drop off movements (first of Mendelssohn's Scotting Symphony, reordering Tchaikovsky's Suite No. 4 for Mozartiana, etc.)

His collaboration with Stravinsky was most lauded, and he had a relationship with the composer that spanned nearly five decades.

What an outstanding thread this is working out to be!

I think "Rockit" worked for a few reasons. First, it's good, upbeat, and energetic music. The energy really grabs your attention, but unlike a lot of what you hear on the radio, there's nothing sexual about it. The robot dance movements are fun without being seductive. I think that makes it safer to use. On the other hand, most popular forms of music are produced in the hopes of getting a hit. Sex sells. Anything with a "nasty groove" would probably not be well received in figure skating competitions.

theoreticalgirl said:

And what of "Rockit"? In terms of hip-hop, it's a golden oldie, but it's seemingly the only piece of music from the genre that's acceptable for performance. Why is that? What are your feelings about it? Why is pop music seemingly unacceptable and/or cordoned to the realm of exhibition?

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How about Elvis Stojko's "Frogs in Space"?

Only interested in women? What was Debi Thomas's SP music in 1988? Not actually hiphop, but related. (I note that you alluded to one of Tonya Harding's selections in your abstract.)

Music with lyrics is prohibited in competition (except ice dance in the last few years), so that limits the choices for pop music. Many of the songs that skaters choose for exhibitions are chosen for the lyrics as much as the musical value and would make very boring competitive programs without the words, or with the same song used for a whole long program.

Sweeping melodic lines are good complements to sweeping flow across the ice, which is why so many skaters choose classical or movie music with that characteristic.

Recognizable melodies are also easy for judges and spectators to latch onto.

Melodic jazz, especially big band swing style, is almost as popular among skaters when they aim more for perky than lyrical presentation.

Rock, hiphop, techno, etc. are less common for competition, but they're not exactly unknown either. More popular with male skaters than female, because so many of the girls are trying to be beautiful to beautiful music, or else trying to be flirtatious or sexy to flirtatious/sexy music. But there are enough exceptions that it's untrue to say that pop music is unacceptable.

But there are enough exceptions that it's untrue to say that pop music is unacceptable.

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Denise Biellmann and Jill Trenary won a world title with pop music, with high marks for presentation.

gio said:

Denise Biellmann and Jill Trenary won a world title with pop music, with high marks for presentation.

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I remember when Biellman won with Samba Pa Ti by Santana. My Brother-in-law perked right up when he heard the music. He had been bored witless. He became an instant The-Girl-Who-Skated-to-Santana fan. The music definitely made all the difference. She won with him right then.

That was a risk for Biellman. That music was older when she skated to it. It was considered a classic oldie at the time too. It's very sensual music, but she didn't stress that in her movements at all. I think that made it acceptable.

Pair skaters and dancers can get away with very sexy music. I don't think single skaters, especially girls, can. Two skaters can play off each other. One skater being seductive for an audience would probably be thought of as tacky. Singles may look sexy, but they rarely move sexily in competition. If you remember Kwan in 1996, she may have looked older, but she performed a very chaste Salome.

I don't think there is such thing as the wrong music per se, but I think there is music that is wrong for particular skaters. So many times in movies, critics will say that while a movie is good, the lead actor was miscast and really couldn't pull the role off. I think the same type of thing happens in skating.

I think in figure skating, each skater needs to work with music that will complement their style. In picking the old warhorses, skaters may think they're skating to what judges want to hear, but it really doesn't suit them. Skaters get frustrated, because they don't fit in that traditional mold, and it's like they try to be something they're not. The reason why people have picked different types of music and gotten high presentation marks is because they found something that works with thier style of skating. Having the music that will accentuate strengths can be a tremendous asset to any skater, whether it be classical, folk, pop new age, or whatever!

SusanBeth said:

Pair skaters and dancers can get away with very sexy music. I don't think single skaters, especially girls, can. Two skaters can play off each other. One skater being seductive for an audience would probably be thought of as tacky. Singles may look sexy, but they rarely move sexily in competition. If you remember Kwan in 1996, she may have looked older, but she performed a very chaste Salome.

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Singles skaters who come to mind as having had success with seductive or flirtatious programs:

Katarina Witt
Jill Trenary
Oksana Baiul
Nicole Bobek
Maria Butyrskaya

I'd probably include Lu Chen's tango SP (and Take Five, but she didn't have competitive success with it)

and others . . . including a few men, but they're usually less openly seductive about it

YMMV as to which programs turned you on and which were tacky, pandering, or otherwise unsuccessful efforts.

I think the difference does lie in what you would consider "very sexy." If you listen to what young people are playing and dancing to these days, it's not about being mildly flirtatious. It's about "get busy". The Ladies on your list would look like nuns in comparison! What I think of as popular music has gotten pretty blatantly sexual.

Of course, single skaters would like to "attract", but I don't consider that to be the same thing as being seductive. It's a matter of degree.

There was a quote made by a choreographer saying, "Music is 80% of the choreography." I think it was Lori Nichol, but I'm not positive.

As a competitive figure skater myself, I think that music is very crucial. I will listen to maybe a hundred songs (many skaters listen to a lot more) before I find just the right one. Some people have certain styles. For example, can you imagine Sasha Cohen skating to techno music comfortably? Classical, romantic pieces seem, to me, more her style. For myself, I'm more comfortable skating to classical pieces, but this season I chose an upbeat, saucy piece of music that really pushed me outside my comfort zone. I had to skate fast, more powerfully and you know what? It has helped me a lot to become a better skater! Music should not be background music. Skaters should like their music. After all, they're going to hear it everyday for about 9 months. I don't just let the music play. I try to interpret it. That's what makes some skaters crowd favorites. I have seen a dance teacher several times this season and we just worked on presentation for my music. It worked wonders for me!!

I don't think a music decision is something to take lightly. It dictates how you will skate in a program. Ultimately, if you love your music it will be much easier for you to go out and have a great time skating it!!

Warhorses

I was too young to remember Denise as an amateur, but she was also known for unusual music choices as a pro.

Since there's been a lot of talk about the "warhorses," which pieces of music fall into that category? Here are some of my selections (for singles, I don't watch pairs):

Swan Lake
Carmen
Tosca
Turandot
The Feeling Begins
Romeo & Juliet
Malaguena
Don Quijote
Madame Butterfly
Scheherazade
Sleeping Beauty
The Four Seasons
Sing, Sing, Sing
Sampson & Delilah
Most movie soundtracks (LOTR, 1492, Gladiator, The Mission, etc.)
Firebird
The Nutcracker
Any flamenco music
Any Rachmaninov Piano Concerto

That's quite a list right there. A skater could spend their entire amateur career only using warhorses and never take a chance.

Anything with a "nasty groove" would probably not be well received in figure skating competitions.

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Who's jammin' to my nasty groove? I am waiting for someone to skate to Janet Jackson's "Nasty." Especially the part where she says, "No my name ain't baby / It's Janet / Miss Jackson if you're nasty!"

icy fresh said:

There was a quote made by a choreographer saying, "Music is 80% of the choreography." I think it was Lori Nichol, but I'm not positive.

As a competitive figure skater myself, I think that music is very crucial. I will listen to maybe a hundred songs (many skaters listen to a lot more) before I find just the right one. Some people have certain styles. For example, can you imagine Sasha Cohen skating to techno music comfortably? Classical, romantic pieces seem, to me, more her style.

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You see i don't really agree with that about Cohen - i haven't really thought she skated with any musicality until this season. Her SPs were usually better (in every way) i think just because they were shorter, but i think she had a tendancy to skate through the music and hit pretty positions throughout. This season she really did use the music - maybe Wilson made her click with it more?!

I don't know, but i think she bought into the "baby ballerina" BS that everyone foisted on her from such a young age. I personally think the program she displayed the most musicality was the "don't rain on my parade" exhibition. I'm amazed i like it because i detest that song with a passion but she skated really well and it made me think - you know what everyone tells Sasha she's so pretty and so classical on the ice that she only ever skated to the overused classical pieces...what if she let her hair down and used strong music? No more of the agonised "now i'm emoting" faces. We all know that she's got attitude, she's one agressive little dynamite - give her some kick *** strong music where she's not being "pretty pretty" but skating lights out with agression, with a less frou frou costume and see what that does for her? She's tried ballerina on ice for the last 6 seasons and its not really worked for her - why not have an overhaul and harness some of that energy she displays before she gets on the ice. We've all seen it - when she's skating around just before they announce her and she talking to Nick's at the boards - she looks like she could easily hold her own against Mike Tyson and then as she skates to the centre of the rink the big smile and "i'm going to skate really pretty now" face comes on...i just don't think its her, i think she skates the way everyone has told her she should skate - be the ice princess.

Ant

Most movie soundtracks (LOTR, 1492, Gladiator, The Mission, etc.)

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Who skated on the LOTR soundtrack? I don't remember.

gio said:

Who skated on the LOTR soundtrack? I don't remember.

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Chait & Sakhnovki skated to it.

I also think movie soundtracks are usually particularly popular with younger male skaters in the intermediate/novice/junior ranks.

Welcome to Golden Skate. Actually music is as important to a skater as his/her choreography and even sometimes more important. Depending on the skills of the skater the music can make or break a program. For Instance both Jeff Buttle and Kurt Browning have an ear for music and both can skate to pretty much any tempo and interpret the music. They both are artistic skaters and can feel music.

Other skaters are more athletic and stick to the technical side of their program, concentrating on their jump technique. Plushenko is a good example of this and in the past Elvis Stojko. These skaters need really bold music to skate to with lots of crescendo.

Sometimes skaters make the mistake of choosing the wrong piece of music - especially when they are just starting. It's up to their coach to help them, but even they make poor choices. Either a skater is up to a piece or he/she is not.

A lot of top comepetive skaters this season went back to old programs when they found a new piece was not working for them. Jeff Buttle changed back to an old program before the Olympics and Brian Joubert changed back to an old program before Worlds. It was a wise decision for both.

Anyway, I hope this answers your question.

lulu said:

Chait & Sakhnovki skated to it.

I also think movie soundtracks are usually particularly popular with younger male skaters in the intermediate/novice/junior ranks.

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Todd Eldredge also used LOTR in 2002.

OMG! What great responses. I am *this close* to finishing up my paper, which I'll share with y'all once I return from the conference.

I've been writing furiously the last few weeks and wanted to share this little nugget of info regarding Arakawa's LP music. I find her skating a bit robotic and typical of Figure Skating, to be honest. I was struggling with why it her LP bugged me until I stumbled upon this abstract for an academic article regarding Turandot. I've boldfaced a couple of phrases that I found highly coincedental, especially when considering the state of flux the sport is in, as we shift towards a new judging system where racking up points is the name of the game:

Giacomo Puccini was hailed as a national hero at his death in 1924, and again seventeen months later at the posthumous premiere of Turandot. However, scrutiny of the Turandot reviews reveals complex subtexts underpinning the patriotic encomiums. Of particular concern to the early critics was the opera's eponymous heroine, who seemed symbolic of an emotionally sterile modernism. The implications of the perception of Turandot as a 'machine woman' are considered here against the backdrop of contemporary developments in the Italian avant-garde spoken theatre.

This article posits Turandot as a highly self-interrogatory work, in which Puccini experimented with new approaches to operatic character and dramaturgy, and reflected upon his oeuvre past and present. Turandot and Liù were presented by critics as representing Puccini's late and early compositional manners, leading to concern about an apparent dichotomy in his style that was unwelcome in a final work. Discussions of the two heroines were used to articulate debates about Puccini's compositional sincerity; about changing attitudes towards operatic sentimentality; and about how the challenges posed by modernism were to be confronted within an Italian context.

[Al3xandra W1lson, Music and Letters 86.3 (2005) 432-451]

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This makes me wonder, and I pose this questions to the active competitors on the board [though anyone with competitive experience may chime in, of course!]: How much research do you invest in your music?

Great thread, I just came across it.

I have to agree with Susan Beth about becoming an instant fan after seeing a skater perform to a diffeent/unusual music selection.

I have been raving since the Nationals non-stop about Nick Traxler and Charolette Maxwell. They skated to Iranian Folk dance, which was magnificent. I think M&T finished in the top 10 or so but they (along with Wester and Barantsev, who skated to a Russian Medley) are the ones I remember from the Nats. Both teams had fantastic costumes that matched music perfectly.

Another great selection of music and costumes - the Kerrs Scottish medley.

Workhorse: while I appreciate classical selections, there's nothing worse than sitting through a dozen Carmens, R&J, etc.. I enjoy seeing a different music being used, but for me, it has to be "dancible". I didn't like Katya's abstract number she used ages ago (she also wore a one-piece leotard which looked odd on her) and I don't like Philip Glass music.