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Thread: Musical Selection

  1. #46
    Tripping on the Podium
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    Sexual: Of or relating to sex (All my definitions essentially boil down to this).

    Sensuous: Of or relating to the senses, suggesting pictures or images of sense, producing an agreeable effect on the senses.

  2. #47
    Custom Title Joesitz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IcyBallerina
    Sexual: Of or relating to sex (All my definitions essentially boil down to this).

    Sensuous: Of or relating to the senses, suggesting pictures or images of sense, producing an agreeable effect on the senses.
    Thank you Icy Ballerina. With that I believe we are developing some kind of emotional sense of what the skaters brings to the audience. It could be sexual but it doesn't have to be. Just nodding at the skater and feeling the sense of enjoyment is what I want.

    Joe

  3. #48
    Rinkside
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joesitz
    What's the difference between sexual and sensuous? If they are different then maybe we are not using the correct one. Just don't know and too lazy to look it up.
    What's your point?

    From the Oxford English Dictionary, which is as official as it gets:

    Sensual, adj.

    of or arousing gratification of the senses and physical, especially sexual, pleasure: the production of the ballet is sensual and passionate.

    - DERIVATIVES sensualism noun sensualist noun sensualize ( also sensualise ) verb sensually adverb .

    - ORIGIN late Middle English (in the sense ‘sensory’): from late Latin sensualis, from sensus (see sense).

    (USAGE The words sensual and sensuous are frequently used interchangeably to mean ‘gratifying the senses’, especially in a sexual sense. Strictly speaking, this goes against a traditional distinction, by which sensuous is a more neutral term, meaning ‘relating to the senses rather than the intellect’, as in swimming is a beautiful, sensuous experience, while sensual relates to gratification of the senses, especially sexually, as in a sensual massage. In fact the word sensuous is thought to have been invented by Milton (1641) in a deliberate attempt to avoid the sexual overtones of sensual. In practice, the connotations are such that it is difficult to use sensuous in this sense. While traditionalists struggle to maintain a distinction, the evidence from the Oxford English Corpus and elsewhere suggests that the ‘neutral’ use of sensuous is rare in modern English. If a neutral use is intended it is advisable to use alternative wording.)

    Sexual, adj.

    1. relating to the instincts, physiological processes, and activities connected with physical attraction or intimate physical contact between individuals: she had felt the thrill of a sexual attraction.

    2. relating to the two sexes or to gender: sensitivity about sexual stereotypes.

    • of or characteristic of one sex or the other: the hormones which control the secondary sexual characteristics.

    3. (Biology) (of reproduction) involving the fusion of gametes.

    • being of one sex or the other; capable of sexual reproduction.

    - DERIVATIVES sexually adverb .

    - ORIGIN mid 17th cent.: from late Latin sexualis, from Latin sexus ‘sex’.

  4. #49
    Custom Title 76olympics's Avatar
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    Question: Did Skaters before 1970 use "warhorses"? I know Donald Jackson skated rather spectacularly to "Carmen" at the 1962 Worlds and the Protopopovs used "Moonlight Sonata" years before G and G did, but was it as common as it has been since?

    I do know first-hand that there were a good many techno-versions used during the 1980s. Some of them sound very funny now, but I accepted them at the time!

  5. #50
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by theoreticalgirl
    ...Sex as a machine, sex machine... hmmm, sounds a lot like James Brown!
    Or the Miracles: "Oh...yeah, I'm just a love machine....And I won't work for nobody but you."

    I once sent Lori Nicole a CD of Marvin Gaye's "(I'm your) Love Man" for her to use for Tim Goebel. I always thought Timmy and Marvin broadcasted pretty much the same vibe. (Only I changed the words to "Quad Man.")

    OK, I have now read your paper pretty carefully. I love this kind of stuff. It's what makes me a figure skating fan. (We don't look to hockey players or cross country cyclists to mirror cultural norms, right?)

    http://herjazz.org/maria/emp2006

    When I get my thoughts together I will post on the site.

    First, I thought your thesis was highly original. There have been so many sociological examinations of figure skating in culture and the culture of figure skating that it would seem pretty hard to come up with a new insight that wasn't done to death by the feminists of the seventies.

    But your insight to focus on the actual music selection in the context of aesthetic conformity was quite fresh, IMHO.

    I do, however, find myself still not really up in arms over the issue of music that is "slocky, intro-to-classical-for-dummies"

    -- OT, I just Googled this title. Yes, there is a book "Classical Music for Dummies." Act now and Amazon will throw in "Opera for Dummies" at half price! --

    "slocky, intro-to-classical-for-dummies, so defiantly middlebrow in its conception,..." Well, God must love us boozhie middlebrows, he made so many of us. Go Tchaikovsky! What figure skater would dare Beethoven -- who could possibly hope to skate up to the music?

    MM
    Last edited by Mathman; 06-04-2006 at 09:55 PM.

  6. #51
    In my heart, I'm actually Canadian....
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman

    -- OT, I just Googled this title. Yes, there is a book "Classical Music for Dummies." Act now and Amazon will throw in "Opera for Dummies" at half price! --



    MM
    Did this come with a CD? It seems to me that at some point, about 10 years ago, there was a "Classical Music for Dummies" CD floating around; seems to me my boyfriend at the time had a copy. While in favor of the basic idea, the "culture snob" in me was just a little mortified at the liner notes, i.e. "Sabre Dance" by Khatchuturian, heard in the "Scrubbing Bubble Toilet Bowl Cleaner" commercials; "Appalachian Spring" by Aaron Copland, heard in the "Beef. It What's For Dinner" commercials. While I knew that these pieces had been used for that, still, when flat out expressed like THAT, it seems to cheapen things just a bit.

  7. #52
    Skating Freak Barbie
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman
    I once sent Lori Nicole a CD of Marvin Gaye's "(I'm your) Love Man" for her to use for Tim Goebel. I always thought Timmy and Marvin broadcasted pretty much the same vibe. (Only I changed the words to "Quad Man.")
    Ok, so somewhat had to be the first to say it.....SAY WHAAAAT??? Timmy and Marvin? Argh!

  8. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by JonnyCoop
    "Appalachian Spring" by Aaron Copland, heard in the "Beef. It What's For Dinner" commercials.
    Just to clarify our memories, I thought the Copland in the Beef commercials was the Hoe-Down movement from the ballet, "Rodeo."

    As much as I don't like the fact that this great music gets associated with such mundane things, it is helpful when teaching music to non-music majors to tell them that they have heard the music of America's greatest composer.

    (goes off to check the CD, using the excuse that since I'm enrolled in Music in the United States for the summer term, I'm really studying...)

    ETA: Yes, even hubby agreed that it's Rodeo.
    Last edited by Alsace; 06-05-2006 at 08:36 PM.

  9. #54
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    It's Hoe-Down not Appalachian Spring. I studied Copland in HS for the academic decathlon. I heard Hoe-Down way too many times for my liking...

  10. #55
    In my heart, I'm actually Canadian....
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    You know, Appalachian Spring did not sound quite right to me when I was writing that post, but I do remember attending a concert where the "Beef, it's what's for dinner" piece was played and I could have sworn the program said Appalachian Spring, but there is an excellent chance I could be mistaken. (I was on a very bad date and have tried to block out most of the whole evening.... ) As a matter of fact, I definitely remember, when the piece was over, I did say, out loud, "Beef. It's what's for dinner." and got looked at like I just stepped off a space ship.

  11. #56
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lanie
    I studied Copland in HS for the academic decathlon.
    Did you win?

  12. #57
    Rinkside
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman
    I do, however, find myself still not really up in arms over the issue of music that is "slocky, intro-to-classical-for-dummies"

    -- OT, I just Googled this title. Yes, there is a book "Classical Music for Dummies." Act now and Amazon will throw in "Opera for Dummies" at half price! --

    "slocky, intro-to-classical-for-dummies, so defiantly middlebrow in its conception,..." Well, God must love us boozhie middlebrows, he made so many of us. Go Tchaikovsky! What figure skater would dare Beethoven -- who could possibly hope to skate up to the music?
    Well, no one wants to be told their taste in music is middlebrow! We're taught that everything we do is unique and special.

    If it's in "Classical For Dummies", its ceded its right to retaining artistic value. Ask anyone with a PhD in Musicology and they'll agree. In fact, they will probably have some very harsh words to say about Beethoven, Tchaikovsky, etc. Compared to them, I'm being pretty nice.

    That said, it's the job of academics/critics/whathaveyou to question the existence of canons, musical and otherwise. If I had never wondered why skaters perform to utterly horrible music, I wouldn't have written this paper.

    As far as sociological & cultural writings on skating go, Ellyn Kestnbaum's "Culture On Ice" and the collection "Women On Ice" were quite essential in developing my theoretical foundations. Of course, what validated my work was the dearth of musical discussion in either book, specifically how it stuck to "song X was playing" and nothing else. Considering that music is the driving force behind the artistic component of the sport, I was surprised by the lack of analysis.

  13. #58
    Skater Girl
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman
    Did you win?
    I personally got a ton of medals at County, but no, we lost because on our team we had two people who were total slackers and blew it in the Super Quiz (Lewis & Clark - despite my hating of them the questions I got in my round were pretty easy and I got 9/10. I felt so cool since we didn't prepare very well for that ). Sniff. I competed in Ventura County, CA which is supposedly the hardest county in the nation.

  14. #59
    MY TVC 1 5 SeaniBu's Avatar
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    I am not saying anything derogatory, just thought that it was the Piedmont schools that held that category - I guess I was wrong. Maybe they are good for just Bird calls and spelling bees

  15. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by theoreticalgirl
    Well, no one wants to be told their taste in music is middlebrow! We're taught that everything we do is unique and special.
    It's one thing to call something "middlebrow."

    "schlocky, intro-to-classical-for-dummies garbage" goes beyond simply characterizing it as such.

    If it's in "Classical For Dummies", its ceded its right to retaining artistic value. Ask anyone with a PhD in Musicology and they'll agree. In fact, they will probably have some very harsh words to say about Beethoven, Tchaikovsky, etc. Compared to them, I'm being pretty nice.
    So if a piece of classical music was considered good in its time, and popular for decades or centuries afterward, and then the Dummies publishers, or pops concerts programmers, decide to include it, it suddenly becomes bad? Surely the value of a piece of music as music is more complex than that.

    And its value as a framework for a sporting performance would have other considerations that are irrelevant to musicologists.

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