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Thread: Fumie's technical score was lower than Sasha's

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ogre Mage
    I agree that a clean program should count for something and a fall should be a zero. I probably would have put Fumie on podium.
    If a fall was zero, you'd never have the skaters trying difficult jumps. They'd all mosey around doing safe singles and doubles and would have no incentive to try the more difficult jumps.

    Plus, I don't understand all the people who think jumps are the end-all and be-all of a skater's program and want all the marks to be based only on whether they made five triples or seven triples. There's is so much more to skating than the gymnastic ability to do a jump. Give me someone that shows off their footwork and edges and, most importantly, their musicality. Someone that feels the music and tells us a story while they're skating rather than just trying to get from Point A to B to do their next jump entertains me and moves me far more. Thank goodness this new scoring system rewards artistry more than the old one did. It forces them to be better 'skaters' in order to get higher marks, and that's good for all of us skating fans.

  2. #17
    Wicked Yankee Girl dorispulaski's Avatar
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    Another thing about Sasha vs. Fumie. In both the old and the new system, energy and tricks at the end of the program were always rewarded. In the new system, it's a 1.1 multiplier for the jumps completed after the 2 minute mark.And by the way, this is a huge improvement for Sasha who used to totally frontload the program. This shows endurance and good training, so it's one of the nods to athleticism in skating, but artistically it's great to have a program that builds to a crescendo and doesn't just dribble away to nothing:

    Sasha after the two minute had a base mark for jumps:
    3F2t
    3T+3s SEQUENCE
    2a
    3s
    This is a base score of 23.6

    Fumie had after the 2 minute mark
    3Lz
    2F2t
    3T
    2A2t
    This is a base score of 19.4

    So you can even show by the numbers that Sasha finished strongly in every sense.

  3. #18
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    It is all about the point system now. Fumie's program was a lot different even from NHK competition. I was waiting to see her footwork. When she did it at NHK it was right with the beat of the music. I thought a lot of her choreography looked different. Did she change it herself?
    Last edited by flying camel; 02-25-2006 at 11:05 PM.

  4. #19
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    It must be athletic

    Figure skating will remain a laughing stock in the sports world (considered fluff and ignored most of the time in most newspaper sports sections) if jumps and other purely athletic moves aren't taken more seriously. It is dead wrong for an attempted jump that is not landed to be counted. Sasha did have two falls.
    She was all the way down on both hands on the second failed jump.
    There's no way that any points should be received for something like that.
    Why should it matter if it is rotated all the way in the air if the person can't land it?

  5. #20
    Custom Title Ogre Mage's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by loony
    If a fall was zero, you'd never have the skaters trying difficult jumps. They'd all mosey around doing safe singles and doubles and would have no incentive to try the more difficult jumps.
    But the thing is, if you land the difficult jump you get more points. That's the incentive.

  6. #21
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    NBC bought Sasha's scores, just like they bought the scores of Lysacek, and just like NBC bought the golds of Hamm and Patterson in Athens. Looking at the skating alone for answers will likely leave you still confused, since her scores were not related strictly to her skating performances. As for Suguri, in a fair world she would have moved up to bronze with her free skate, but she is not American, and even if she was she may not have been the one NBC designated to be gifted scores.

  7. #22
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    ??? I'm sorry SF, you have me completely lost.

    It's just so not true. A conspiracy theory out of left field. Don't you think SOME sort of controversy would eventually develop if this was the case?

    Whatever, though.

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Red Dog
    ??? I'm sorry SF, you have me completely lost.

    It's just so not true. A conspiracy theory out of left field. Don't you think SOME sort of controversy would eventually develop if this was the case?

    Whatever, though.
    Like I said, look at Worlds for the PCS scores of Cohen, Lysacek and others to go noticeably down for similar performances; just as I said would happen to Joubert at Olympics compared to Europeans and it did. It wont be coincidence.

    I cant see any other way Cohen with two huge falls beating Irina, or Lysacek getting almost the same PCS as Lambiel and higher spin scores than Buttle and Lambiel, and Belbin/Agosto winning silver with two stumbles on twizzles in the long.

  9. #24
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by slutskayafan21
    NBC bought Sasha's scores, just like they bought the scores of Lysacek, and just like NBC bought the golds of Hamm and Patterson in Athens.
    I am outraged! NBC bought gold medals for the gymnasts but only a silver and a fourth for figure skaters? Boy, that shows where their true loyalty lies.

    Next time let's lobby for ABC to get the Olympics. Gold for Katy Taylor and Charlie White. (Who's Charlie White? Just wait and see!!!!!)
    As for Suguri, in a fair world she would have moved up to bronze with her free skate...
    ...but those darn NBC executives decided to cheat for Slutskaya instead! Grrr.

    MM

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by slutskayafan21
    NBC bought Sasha's scores, just like they bought the scores of Lysacek, and just like NBC bought the golds of Hamm and Patterson in Athens. Looking at the skating alone for answers will likely leave you still confused, since her scores were not related strictly to her skating performances. As for Suguri, in a fair world she would have moved up to bronze with her free skate, but she is not American, and even if she was she may not have been the one NBC designated to be gifted scores.

  11. #26
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    Why does everyone think Lysacek got too high scores? I really don't get that, he didn't make one single mistake. You say Suguri should be rewarded for skating a (almost) perfect program, which I do agree with, but Lysacek shouldn't? come on..

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by hockeyfan228
    Cohen's base score was 57.5, the highest base score of any skater in the free skate. (Arakawa's was 57.3). Cohen attempted and rotated seven triples, more than any women in the top 10. The next highest attempted and rotated triple count was five.

    You're wrong. Joannie Rochette did LAND PERFECTLY (exception maybe for that scary triple salchow) 6 triple jumps and even doubled her second attemp to a triple lutz (she had 7 triples planned). Further more, she had the second best Technical Score of the night...

    Way to go Joannie !!
    Last edited by Gr8Sk8s; 03-11-2006 at 11:30 PM.

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by RubyNV
    Figure skating will remain a laughing stock in the sports world (considered fluff and ignored most of the time in most newspaper sports sections) if jumps and other purely athletic moves aren't taken more seriously. It is dead wrong for an attempted jump that is not landed to be counted. Sasha did have two falls.
    She was all the way down on both hands on the second failed jump.
    There's no way that any points should be received for something like that.
    Why should it matter if it is rotated all the way in the air if the person can't land it?
    Overall I agree with Fumie's 4th place finish because of the other things mentioned here. Fumie's overall skate was not strong enough, IMO- weak footwork, weak spins, weak musical interpretation- even though she more or less landed the jumps. However, I have a real problem with a skater being given credit simply for rotating the jump even though he/she could not land it. We saw something similar in the mens LP with Buttle. Landing a jump has to be important, otherwise why bother to call this a sport? I can see a minor problem with a landing get partial credit (e.g. a turnout, two-foot, or bending forward, step out), the way the 6.0 system did. However, Sasha's second jump should have counted as a fall. She had to put all her weight on the two hands to keep from falling. It should not be necessary to hit the butt on the ice to call it a fall. This is one of the things I dislike about COP.

    Vash

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by RubyNV
    .S
    I have a special hatred of the weird obsession with spiral sequences. How did they get such clout? For one thing, more and more skaters are doing very well done spirals, many of them now pulling one leg up like a flamingo, and even letting go of the skate at that point to increase the difficulty level. I am tired of seeing almost everyone doing basically the same move. For another thing, why is displaying your crotch to the world considered a beautiful artistic move? If the ladies have bodysuits on, it would at least not look like a desire to display the
    panty portion of their skating dresses to the world (and by the way, a lot of the ladies are wearing what look more like thongs under their dresses). I am rather creeped out by the extended spirals of Sasha and others. I think she does this because the craze for spiral sequences started with Michelle Kwan, who was so highly ranked. People would rave about her spiral sequence, even though it always was skated exactly the same. I was really, really sick of seeing it!
    There are a lot of skating moves that are being neglected these days. Bring some of those back and ditch the spiral sequence as a requirement. Variety is so much more interesting. Let's see more emphasis on doing jumps out of fancy footwork.
    I too feel that the spiral sequences are a bit overdone these days. Michelle did beautiful spirals but the beauty of those spirals was not in how flexible she was but rather in how well she controlled the edge and how she put her heart into them. Before Michelle there was Nicole Bobek who had gorgeous extension on her spirals. I believe her spiral influenced/challenged Michelle to improve hers.

    However, the current trend of 'see how flexible I am' started with Sasha, IMO. When she first appeared on the scene, her flexibility was impressive but soon it got old because the edge quality was not there. Since she was getting high marks from the judges because of her flexibility, and COP started giving high PCS scores, it may have encouraged others who were flexible (and those who were not) to attempt similar moves. To me, only skating is skating, meaning the important things are edges, speed, lines, posture, flow over the ice. It should not be a competition of how flexible one is. I personally feel that Shizuka does not need such spiral sequence moves because she has wonderful edges. However, if she did not show how flexible she is, she may end up getting lower marks than Sasha. I would love to see gorgeous spread eagles, and other MIFs. Sasha's wonderful Russian splits, Shizuka's Ina Bauer, Michelle's falling leaf are beautiful moves and should be rewarded. They do get some high PCS for those, but I don't know how much.

    A spiral sequence cannot be dropped. It has always been a requirement for the ladies (as far as I can remember). A spiral is one of the most beautiful moves in ladies skating. I want to see it retained but the way it is being marked needs improvement.

    Vash

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gr8Sk8s
    You're wrong. Joannie Rochette did LAND PERFECTLY (exception maybe for that scary triple salchow) 6 triple jumps and even doubled her second attemp to a triple lutz (she had 7 triples planned). Further more, she had the second best Technical Score of the night...

    Way to go Joannie !!
    You're right -- her sixth triple was part of a 2A SEQ 3S, which I missed when reviewing the protocols. She edged out Cohen for the second-highest technical score by .07.

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