Keeper of La Khok's Tutus
A sad skate of affairs...
I am very sorry to read what Golden Skate threads have become. I realize the Oly's bring tension for sports fans. But in my opinion, the way this board is being moderated is more like MKF Junior than a general FS board.
Poster Morganlee was apparently banned after some posts in disfavor of MK. Morganlee, as a new poster, was called an idiot and a troll by one or more "seasoned" GS members. Morganlee was chastised for being new to the board, but coming out with "guns blazing" (I'm paraphrasing) and raising some long term members ire.
A couple months ago, there was a new poster Olliebee. On that person's fourth post, in a thread titled "Michelle," Ollibee used the term "Sashasplat." I expressed an opinion that I thought that was uncalled for. I got the wrath of moderation on me (my opinion) for "running a new person off the board." Here's the thread I'm referring to, just for reference.
I not only publically apologized for maybe being too "blunt" in the way I expressed my opinion, but I privately aplogized. And still tolerated a GS moderator referencing "running people off the board" - clearly directed at me -on many other unrelated threads and topics.
So. Here's my take. Morganlee offended the sensibilities of some die hard Kwan Fans, who are allowed to call Morganlee an "idiot" and a "troll." The moderator opinion from what I can tell is that Morganlee, as a new poster on GS should have been more sensitive to the surroundings or something like that (enter more gently). Hence, name calling directed at Morganlee was apparently OK.
Other side of the (IMO) same coin from a couple months ago....
New poster Olliebie uses a (IMO) derogatory slam to Sasha. But old poster Doggygirl is chastized for expressing that opinion WITHOUT using any personal slams like "idiot" or "troll." I put up with the accusation from Joesitz that I am running new posters off the board not only in that thread, but in other unrelated threads since the incident. Even after I formally apologized both publically and privately. And I have tolerated Moderator Joe's *not so subtle* stabs that I am a fan of this or that, or am running people off, which is not true. (and it's clear Joe does this to other posters even more than me).
In the mean time, posters such as mzheng are allowed to denegrate my screen name, with no apparent moderation at all. (if any moderator told mzheng to tone it down, I am unaware of it). Posters such as Kwanford Wife can call new posters "idiots and trolls" and be (IMO) praised for it not only by other posters, but by moderators.
In my opinion, this board is being moderated as MKF Junior. I don't own the board, and the board owner has every right to manage this board however they want to. Any of us who don't like it are free to start our own boards, or look for other boards. So I'm not suggesting anything be done different. What I am saying is that IMO, GS has become MKF Junior. The sad skate of affairs is that MK isn't even competing in the competition at hand.
In my opinion, the more the die hard Kwan fans are allowed to bully other posters, the deeper the MKF Junior hole will become. If that is where the Golden Skate owner and moderators want this board to go - that is your right.
It's not Wier, but IMO It's Here.
In my heart, I'm actually Canadian....
I know exactly what you mean. This is why I rarely even READ threads directly related to Kwan. I made the mistake of offending certain pro-Kwan sensibilities on one thread (and I didn't even say anything derogatory, I was merely suggesting that one get a grip, more or less) and man, was I ROASTED. (Not by the moderators, but by the thread starter) [I'm sure some of you probably can get a pretty good idead who it was, too] I don't know what it is about the subject of Michelle that gets people so unbeleivably sensitive; I stopped posting on another board years ago for the same reason. And I didn't even get any *** for my posts there; I was just tired of reading all the acrimony involved.
Matt Savoie~Soul Skater
I have to say I agree with you almost completely. There is a particular Mod, that bully's whomever he wishes. But I've never seen MZheng be mean, though. Maybe I didn't read that particular thread. *shrug*
I would love to see this forum be a happier place to come to. Not full of arguments every time I turn around. I know we can be better than that.
Lovin' the Kween ... Now and Forever
Doggygirl, I disagree about Morganlee. While I wish she hadn't been called an idiot, she certainly was a troll. There is a huge difference between someone who has a complaint or negative opinion about Michelle for a particular reason, and says so in a post ... and the poster who posts NOTHING but negative comments about Michelle (or any skater, for that matter) from day one. Those posters come here and to other boards with the sole purpose of aggravating people. Where we (I include myself) make our mistakes is in even responding to that nonsense. It just gets very difficult at times to see someone ragging on someone continuously, for no other reason than to annoy people.
As for the poster who used the term Sashasplat ... no, that wasn't a nice name to relate to her. Now I can't remember if that poster continually critisized Sasha, or if that was an isolated incident. If the negativity was constant by that person to Sasha, than I think he/she should have been gone too.
And I posted in another thread on this topic ... but it's really not very nice to hear people constantly belittling Kwan fans and MKF posters as crazed maniacs. I am a die-hard fan and try to be respectful of other folks, but maybe you all consider me as one of these hateful creeps too. Just let me know ... because honestly, life is too short to hang around places where people would rather you not be.
Matt Savoie~Soul Skater
DG is one of the nicest people on this forum. It's sad that others can't treat each other decently, like she does.
This is a great board. Without it, I would be stranded on an island of disinterest in regard to figure skating. Noone I know likes it as much as I do. The price for that admission does have to be some moderation by the administrators who start and maintain the board. That's just the way it is.
I do think that particular poster did fit the definition of a troll and I am neither a Michelle uber-fan or uber-hater. Morganlee seemed young and chiefly interested in "putting the cat among the pigeons." (to steal a phrase from the British Eurosport guys). Most of the comments seemed engineered to stir up conflict. Free ranging discussion is great-but conflict is not my cup of tea. I have to say that the mods were justified in my book on that particular call. You have to maintain some sort of decorum particularly when you first enter a community. Trolls don't do that and it's easy to spot them for that very reason.
Keeper of La Khok's Tutus
I really appreciate your point. I was probably wrong to mention any posters (even as an example of broader issues, IMO). Everything is in the eye of the beholder / reader. Regardless of any individuals, I too would love to see this forum as a better/happier place to come to. I hope we can influence that.
Originally Posted by CzarinaAnya
DoggyGirl, I agree with you 100%.
I came to GS just a few years ago. The reason I came to this forum because it was a general forum for all fans of all skaters. I find that it is a refreshing past time during the figure skating to catch up on all the skaters and how they are doing, no particular favourite. I didn't know any figure skating terms just love watching figure skating and by being here I have learned a lot about figure skating and the skaters. to GS on that point.
On another note, skating gods help if GS turns into another MKF lovefest. That forum scares me, it's eerie to read some of the things that say. If I were Michelle, I would be worried. They dream about her, they pray for her as if she is somekind of false idol. It seems as if they got this eerie kind of love for her that is unnatural.
Then, some of them come to this forum and expect the skating fans and fans of other skaters to act and feel like they do. On another thread, I was nearly condemed because I was asking some questions about Michelle and her coach. It was as if I was threading on sacred ground. I didn't see anything wrong with my question. I am a fan of all skaters and don't hate any of them. If your don't profess your undying love and admiriation for her, you are called a Kwan hater or a troll and I hate you, more or less. It is abnormal behaviour. It's as if she is their
Lastly, things are not going to change unless when fans are posting their opinions about skaters and skating that they not take it personal as if we are talking about them. Some fans are taking this to serious. It is as if they are blaming fans of other skaters and skating for Michelle's injuries and because she is not skating. PEACE, for the sake of Golden Skate.
That all she wrote.
Last edited by millie; 02-18-2006 at 07:12 PM.
I have extensive experience on a variety of message boards (non-skating related) including a stint as one of the original moderators of the starwars.com forums. Morganlee's behavior was trolling in the classic sense. Geisha's started out fine, but degenerated into trolling. Ollibee made one half-joking stab at Sasha (using a term I've seen used elsewhere, and no, I do not frequent any skater-specific boards.) They participated in other threads without turning them into bash-Sasha fests. Morganlee in particular hijacked threads unrelated to Michelle Kwan to insult Michelle and her fans. Geisha was a bit more typical a troll in that she not only went after Michelle and Michelle fans, she also started passive-aggressive threads where she couched bashing as "opinion" and took personal, non-skating related jabs at Emily Hughes. Morganlee's trolling tactics seemed particularly directed at Michelle and her fans.
They (I assume they're actually two different posters and not sockpuppets) were banned because they contribued nothing. I can think of a couple other posters I find profoundly annoying when they get on certain topics, but they contribute to other threads without turning them into hatefests. Morganlee especially couldn't manage that. S/he was a troll and deserved to be banned.
What I don't understand - and of course this is partially because ladies skating bores me for the most part which is why I rarely cover it - is how there can be thread after thread after thread after thread....you get the point...about Michelle Kwan.
Now, no offense to the great skater and great person that Michelle is, but really - what is there to talk about? She's been around forever, we hardly see her compete anymore, and in interviews she's about as revealing as a nun's ice dance costume. I have the utmost respect for her - I really do - but cannot figure out the fascination that especially women have, in talking about another woman ad nauseum. I mean, colorful men's interviews can go completely unnoticed (cough * ahem * cough) yet ANYTHING regarding Kwan - even 'imagined' things about Kwan - generate storms of controversy and countless threads.
That it gets to the point of people fighting and banning and leaving boards, etc. is really confusing - I mean, to be blunt...who cares? There are dozens of other great skaters out there to NOT ignore...why focus on one who is at the twilight of her career and only her?
That said, I hope nobody leaves GS because it's a great board.
Last edited by Zanzibar; 02-18-2006 at 07:23 PM.
Maybe it's not really my place to chime in here. My participation here tends to be patchy, even though I have read a great deal over the last few years. The problem here, IMO, is that people are looking at this from different perspectives.
My understanding is that banning does not happen because of a few posts, instead it's a question of looking at a trend over the course of many posts. All of us probably have posts to our (dis)credit that really should not have been written. The important thing is what is there besides those posts.
It does seem like simple justice that if Poster A writes an offensive post and gets banned, then Poster B should be banned for writing an offensive post. But, it's not that simple. When you look at it from a broader perspective, that doesn't seem so fair.
Poster A contributes nothing positive to the board. He makes the atmosphere tense and uncomfortable for others. He is, in fact, sapping some good will from the board. He is making the mods warn him several times. Yet, he doesn't show them respect by listening. He just won't stop till he's banned.
Poster B contributes to many discussions. He participates in several kinds of threads. He is generally well mannered and friendly. He helps newcomers feel welcome. He teaches others respectfully and learns gratefully. Then he has a really bad day.
Do you think those two posters should be treated the same? I don't. Poster A has done nothing but take. Poster B has given far more than he has taken. Which one is worth keeping around?
Arm Chair Skate Fan
I appreciate everyone's comments and concerns, but come on.......there are threads on "The Edge" and the "Olympics" that have at least 25 skaters or pairs being discussed at this moment. Why is this considered an MK board? If you don't want to hear or discuss her at the moment, click onto a thread about someone else.................42
Lovin' the Kween ... Now and Forever
Originally Posted by millie
You see millie, this is exactly the kind of thing I am talking about. Why do you feel it necessary to bring criticisms of MKF posters into the discussion? Why do you care if they dream about or pray for Michelle? Who are you or anyone else to say their love for her is unnatural?
You do a lot of complaining about Kwan fans, but you seem to find every opportunity to get your insults about them in.
Originally Posted by nymkfan51
If you had read the opening thread that DoggyGirl posted, the jist of this thread was GS turning into MKF Junior. That's why MKF and the posters were brought into this discussion. I have no problem with who you pray for or love, just don't go sticking it down other peoples throats. This has nothing to do with Michelle. Michelle is a beautiful, strong talented woman that will go very far in her career, no what what she desides to do.
Millie can you please give examples of what you consider Kwan fans sticking it down other peoples throats?
Originally Posted by millie