Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 48

Thread: Skaters who fall shouldn't be awarded a medal

Hybrid View

  1. #1
    Custom Title Johar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Petoskey, Michigan
    Posts
    1,766

    Skaters who fall shouldn't be awarded a medal

    I didn't say that, but that's what people on several non-skating message boards are saying.

    How do I explain to them why Sasha won Silver?

    And if I have to hear another person say, "This was a boring Olympics. Glad it's over" comment I might have to be restrained. Maybe I just have a hard time understanding how anyone could find the Winter Games exciting. Maybe Americans have short attention spans.

    Maybe it's why I watched alone the past two weeks because my friends wanted to watch American Idol/The Bachelor/Survivor/Skating With Celebrities/Beauty and the Geek, etc.

    Yes, sad to say, but I watched the entire Games by myself because nobody else wanted to watch any of it.

    I just had to get this off my chest.

  2. #2
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Detroit, Michigan
    Posts
    28,825
    About falls, you could say it's like a quarterback who throws an interception, but then comes back and throws a touchdown on the next possession. It's whoever ends up with the most points.

    About "short attention span," at least we know that the television networks agree. The way they chopped up the coverage, it was like they figured we couldn't watch any one event for more than five minutes.

    MM

  3. #3
    Down With It
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    13,691
    I think what's-her-name attempted to justify why the skaters (the top three at least) were placed the way they did after the broadcast.

  4. #4
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Posts
    210
    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman
    About falls, you could say it's like a quarterback who throws an interception, but then comes back and throws a touchdown on the next possession. It's whoever ends up with the most points.

    About "short attention span," at least we know that the television networks agree. The way they chopped up the coverage, it was like they figured we couldn't watch any one event for more than five minutes.

    MM

    That is a good analogy. Just like in basketball a team can have a horrible 1st half and miss darn near everything but be on fire in the 2nd half and win the game. Sometimes both teams have a bad night and the one who played the best of the bad wins. Hardly any player hits every attempt but the more attempts you make the more likely to make points. If player X makes 5 of 7 he gets 10 pts. Player B makes 5 of 6 and gets 10 pts. Also make the 3 pt. vs 2 pt analogy. A triple is 3 pts. A double is 2. 5 triples is 15 pts. 4 triples and a double is 14 points.

  5. #5
    Tripping on the Podium
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Paris, France
    Posts
    62
    Quote Originally Posted by Johar
    I didn't say that, but that's what people on several non-skating message boards are saying.

    How do I explain to them why Sasha won Silver?
    Easy! You only have to say that some skaters have so high components scores that they can fall a couple of times and still be ranked ahead of less known skaters who did a clean performance.

  6. #6
    On the Ice
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    31
    Didn't Jeff Buttle fall and win a bronze medal?

  7. #7
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    I got issues
    Posts
    680
    How do I explain to them why Sasha won Silver?

    Easy. You just tell them that she was propped up by the judges. Simple as that.

  8. #8
    Down With It
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    13,691
    Quote Originally Posted by dancindiva03
    How do I explain to them why Sasha won Silver?

    Easy. You just tell them that she was propped up by the judges. Simple as that.
    Simple enough!!!

  9. #9
    Always Believed! Sk8n Mama's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    520
    I like using other sporting analogies because non-skating fans will get that. You say, "Shaquille O'Neal is still one of the best in basketball, even though he can't make the foul shots. Sasha's skate is like that-she missed the foul shot but she hit plenty of beautiful singles, jams and three-pointers, so she still had the second-highest points for the game."

    I would imagine Americans might find the Winter Olympics kind of boring. I hang out online with a bunch of Americans, almost none of whom watched the Olys or only watched the ladies free. For people in the US, they win a gold medal practically every 5 minutes in the Summer Games so the Winter Games might be kind of boring for them. For Canadians, even though we did extremely well overall, it's always a little anti-climactic when we don't make the men's hockey gold medal game. And also, in figure skating, at least, the podiums were pretty much 'as expected'. Who didn't pick N/K for dance gold, Plushy for mens, T/M for the pairs....the only surprise was the ladies, I think, and even then not who was on the podium just where they were standing.

  10. #10
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    182
    Janet Lynn fell in her free in 1972 and still won Bronze.

    Kristi Yamaguchi and Midori Ito both took tumbles in 1992 and they won Gold and Silver respectively. I don't remember if Nancy Kerrigan also took a fall.

    Peggy Fleming and Scott Hamilton-I don't think they took falls but both said they did not have their best skates in 1968 and 1984 respectively when they won their Olympic titles.

    Frankly-Imo Sasha should have had a substantial lead going into the LP. Her SP was magnicent and visibly superior to the untrained eye compared with all the rest. Her overall quality that night was Olympian in it's proportions.

    The Pairs and Men's skates all had tumbles, or watered down routines (no triple axel for Lambiel), Shizuka, Fumie, and Irina all doubled jumps-no one was really at the top of their game except the winners in Pairs, and Plushenko.

    If they really cared to know why a skater who falls medals, which I doubt, they would educate themselves and how ice skating is scored. Sasha was the only skater to crank seven triple jumps, and the only one to do a triple/triple in a combo sequence. No one else attempted seven triples, no one else attempted a triple/triple combo or sequence. I don't have a problem with Sasha's Silver. Her artistic qualities, and all the 'in between' stuff that Stoyko was NEVER a master of alone should have had her miles ahead of the pack.
    Last edited by ladysarahchatto; 02-28-2006 at 06:47 PM.

  11. #11
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    I got issues
    Posts
    680
    Quote Originally Posted by ladysarahchatto
    Frankly-Imo Sasha should have had a substantial lead going into the LP. Her SP was magnicent and visibly superior to the untrained eye compared with all the rest. Her overall quality that night was Olympian in it's proportions.
    "Visibly superior to the untrained eye? What kind of crap is that? I've listened to the opinions from both the untrained (my dad, who knows nothing about skating) and the very highly trained (my coach, who also used to be a judge) as well as a number of opinions from those in between, and more than anything I have heard "I don't understand why Sasha is in first." The general concensus at my rink from coaches, skaters, and parents, seems to be not that she should have had a substantial lead going into the LP, but that she should have been in third going into the LP. Third by not a huge amount, but more than the .7 point that separated the top three.

  12. #12
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    111
    Quote Originally Posted by dancindiva03
    The general concensus at my rink from coaches, skaters, and parents, seems to be not that she should have had a substantial lead going into the LP, but that she should have been in third going into the LP. Third by not a huge amount, but more than the .7 point that separated the top three.

    Where is your rink located and why does everyone there think Sasha should have been in third after the short? I'm just curious because I don't get your evaluation..

  13. #13
    Go NJ Devils
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Seattle
    Posts
    2,700
    Of the top Ladies, Cohen was the only skater to have a 3 SEQ 3. Yan Liu also had one in her free skate.

  14. #14
    Custom Title Joesitz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    New York City
    Posts
    20,185
    gkelly - You make excellent points to ponder.

    I'm not arguing Rules. If definitions are part of the Rules then a Flutz is not a lutz. How can one judge a jump that wasn't executed? We'll leave it that the Attempt is implied in the Rules, which seems to be ok with others but me.. I am just expressing my opinion which , of course, could never change the ISU Rules.

    Maybe the intent of the skater was to do a Quint but he fell. Did he do a Quint?

    Since the stress on the elements lies with the jumps, my concern was about incomplete jumps.

    Definitions of Spins, I am not sure. Their entries and in some cases their exists are optional. If a skater falls during the actual spinning, then imo, the spin was faulty, and should be given a 0 score. If there was an Attempt to make it a combo spin and that was lost because of a fall, then there was no combo.
    (losing concentration is a serious fault).

    Once a skater has landed the jump, the goe score could be given. If he falls after the landing, then imo, he should get the generalized -l for the performance.

    A fall on footwork should get a -1 for that element if and only if the skater got right back up and continued the footwork which then could be graded as a whole.

    You got me on the sbs Pairs elements where one skater falls and the other doesn't.

    Joe

  15. #15
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    I got issues
    Posts
    680
    Quote Originally Posted by Peggy
    Where is your rink located and why does everyone there think Sasha should have been in third after the short? I'm just curious because I don't get your evaluation..
    Why does it matter where my rink is located? And what about my evaluation is so hard to "get"?

    Third in the short due to her lack of speed and edging, and much less height on her jumps as compared to Irina and Shizuka, and in general they thought her PCS marks were too high.

Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •