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Thread: Skaters who fall shouldn't be awarded a medal

  1. #16
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    OK, how many Olympic medalists had a fall in their program? new thread..

  2. #17
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    Kristi Yamaguchi fell in her Olympic long.

    I don't know if Scott Hamilton actually fell, but I remember him saying that he skated badly at the Olympics, came in second in both the short and long programs, but won because he placed first in figures.

  3. #18
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    How do you explain to them why Sasha won Silver?


    Tell them all the other skaters who have fallen and won medals at the Olympics and that should shut them up.

  4. #19
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    Hamilton didn't fall but stumbled out of 3 lutz and popped some other jump.

    Peggy Fleming also had a couple of bad landings, if not outright falls, in her '68 LP. That's why the full version of her LP has mysteriously 'disappeared' from ABC's vault and it's now impossible to see the entire program from beginning to end.

  5. #20
    it's olympic season :D bethissoawesome's Avatar
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    It's reality TV, I'm telling you. Everyone wants somebody kicked off each week. Maybe we should make the Olympics 24 weeks long and phone in our votes for which skater passes the next round

  6. #21
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    Yan Liu for gold! China has the world's highest population, after all.

    Until the Olympics where India's population exceeds China's. Then Tugba Karademir for gold!

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by FreeKatie
    How do you explain to them why Sasha won Silver?


    Tell them all the other skaters who have fallen and won medals at the Olympics and that should shut them up.
    :chorus: :chorus: :chorus: :chorus:

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by gkelly
    So what happens if all the skaters fall? No one gets a medal?
    Y'know, if Speedy runs the ISU much longer, that'll be the next thing. He's probably dying to incorporate aspects of short-track speed skating (where in many races the only one still standing up wins, like the Australian guy in SLC) in figure skating. That used to be HIS sport, after all.......

    Or maybe he'll have all 24 of the finalists go out there all at once and skate their long programs. Once they get done smacking into each other, colliding in mid-air and landing in an unconscious heap onto the ice (this could take out as many as 3 at once, I should imagine) and inadvertantly slamming each other into the wall, the last skater standing gets the gold; the last one before him/her to go down gets silver, and so forth. Ties would be possible, and of course this would get a little more complicated in Pairs....

    OK, I'll stop now. Don't want to give Speedy any ideas. And I really shouldn't post after having two glasses of wine.....


  9. #24
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    I don't think a fall or more should automatically preclude a winning decision. There are many factors to determine the winner.

    I do think a fall should be considered an incomplete jump and therefore penalized as such - a no jump. A zero, if you will. Putting a GoE on a jump that did not happen just doesn't make sense to me. The -1 in the score is insufficient and unnecessary since I believe the jump was not there to grade.

    Grading attempts, imo, is just pussyfooting the Sport. I'm all for eliminating the Flutz as well. There is no such element. It is by definition a flip and should be graded as such. If it brings up the Zayak rule, then too bad.

    However, in spite of my harsh penalties for falls, I believe a skater can still win a championship based on the rest of the program.

    Joe

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joesitz
    I do think a fall should be considered an incomplete jump and therefore penalized as such - a no jump. A zero, if you will. Putting a GoE on a jump that did not happen just doesn't make sense to me. The -1 in the score is insufficient and unnecessary since I believe the jump was not there to grade.
    OK, so what about a skater who falls at the end of a three-jump combination? Does s/he get points for the first two jumps, or is the whole combination considered incomplete and thus not an element?

    What if the skater falls at the end of a complicated spin or step sequence? No credit for 10 seconds worth of good technique if a slight loss of concentration or an unexpected bump in the ice causes the skater to go down just before completing the element?

    What if the skater falls *after* completing the element? E.g., land a jump, turn forward and take two strokes, down you go? Penalize that as part of the element, or

    What if s/he falls on simple or not-so-simple transition steps between elements? Should there be any penalty at all? Just figure it into the marks for Skating Skills and Transitions and maybe Performance/Execution?

    In a pair team, what if one skater falls on a side-by-side element and the other completes it beautifully? Zero points? Half points? Less than half? What if, between elements or during steps in a hold, one pair or dance partner goes down and the other partner pulls him/her right back up again and they miss a total of one step?

  11. #26
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    Janet Lynn fell in her free in 1972 and still won Bronze.

    Kristi Yamaguchi and Midori Ito both took tumbles in 1992 and they won Gold and Silver respectively. I don't remember if Nancy Kerrigan also took a fall.

    Peggy Fleming and Scott Hamilton-I don't think they took falls but both said they did not have their best skates in 1968 and 1984 respectively when they won their Olympic titles.

    Frankly-Imo Sasha should have had a substantial lead going into the LP. Her SP was magnicent and visibly superior to the untrained eye compared with all the rest. Her overall quality that night was Olympian in it's proportions.

    The Pairs and Men's skates all had tumbles, or watered down routines (no triple axel for Lambiel), Shizuka, Fumie, and Irina all doubled jumps-no one was really at the top of their game except the winners in Pairs, and Plushenko.

    If they really cared to know why a skater who falls medals, which I doubt, they would educate themselves and how ice skating is scored. Sasha was the only skater to crank seven triple jumps, and the only one to do a triple/triple in a combo sequence. No one else attempted seven triples, no one else attempted a triple/triple combo or sequence. I don't have a problem with Sasha's Silver. Her artistic qualities, and all the 'in between' stuff that Stoyko was NEVER a master of alone should have had her miles ahead of the pack.
    Last edited by ladysarahchatto; 02-28-2006 at 06:47 PM.

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by ladysarahchatto
    Frankly-Imo Sasha should have had a substantial lead going into the LP. Her SP was magnicent and visibly superior to the untrained eye compared with all the rest. Her overall quality that night was Olympian in it's proportions.
    "Visibly superior to the untrained eye? What kind of crap is that? I've listened to the opinions from both the untrained (my dad, who knows nothing about skating) and the very highly trained (my coach, who also used to be a judge) as well as a number of opinions from those in between, and more than anything I have heard "I don't understand why Sasha is in first." The general concensus at my rink from coaches, skaters, and parents, seems to be not that she should have had a substantial lead going into the LP, but that she should have been in third going into the LP. Third by not a huge amount, but more than the .7 point that separated the top three.

  13. #28
    ~ Figure Skating Is My Passion ~ Ladskater's Avatar
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    If this were true then none of the skaters would be earning medals. The tricks have become so difficult falls are bound to happen. Therefore the judges have to look at the whole program. The way the skater interpreted the music, quality of edges, etc. all play a part in the final results.

    In the early days of figure skating - the days of school figures - it was the figures component that determined the winner, not the freeskate. A skater could have a fabulous free skate (and that often happened) and not be so great at figures and not win the gold medal. On the other hand someone who was great at tracing figures (Trixi Schuba for instance) could have a very ho-hum free skate or even fall several times and still garner the gold medal. Now that really made the general public scratch their heads. That's why the demise of figures from competition.

    The new scoring system is still being ironed out. I think for the most part the outcome is as it should be.

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by dancindiva03
    The general concensus at my rink from coaches, skaters, and parents, seems to be not that she should have had a substantial lead going into the LP, but that she should have been in third going into the LP. Third by not a huge amount, but more than the .7 point that separated the top three.

    Where is your rink located and why does everyone there think Sasha should have been in third after the short? I'm just curious because I don't get your evaluation..

  15. #30
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    Of the top Ladies, Cohen was the only skater to have a 3 SEQ 3. Yan Liu also had one in her free skate.

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