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Thread: Medalists who have fallen in Olympics

  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by SusanBeth
    With all due respect to them, what MM, MZheng, Bianchetti, Noah Webster, or my MIL thinks should count as a fall is not the point. It's not their definition in play and it's not their call to make.

    It's the Refs call to make. He knows the rules and he applies them. His opinion is the one that counts. Does that mean everyone is going to agree? Hell no, this is figure skating. It does mean his opinion counts and
    Yes, you are right it doesn't matter we think it is a fall or not.

    But according to Bianchetti (it was reported her son is currently on ISU tech commitee) letter, from what she heard, it was very likely a mistake. From where she heard? Her son? (From her previouse letters about disscussing of other competetions, she does talk to her son regarding these competetion very often).

    Given that the end result won't change, even the -1 deduction applied, I'm not supprised there is no protesting from RF (since Irina also skated poorly) and no ISU officials come ahead to correct the mistake.....the least thing ISU wanted in this Olympics was anything could possibley cause the critisizing of NJS.

    Cohen fell on her first jump, a triple Lutz, and put her hands down on the triple flip to keep balance after a shaky landing. Since the two hands she put down seemed to be supporting all her weight, according to the definition of fall, an extra deduction of 1.0 should have been applied. The Technical Panel did not do so and, very likely, from what I have heard, this was a mistake. Cohen really got a gift not being given a second deduction for this jump although even with one point less she would still have won the silver medal. This proves, once more, how influential and dangerous the technical panel may be on the results.

  2. #47
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    Part of the New Judging System is that there is suposed to be a thorough review of the decisions of the technical staff and the judges after each event. At the end of the season the performances of each judge and technical caller is evaluated.

    What would be cool is if the minutes of these review meetings were made public. This will never happen, but I think transparency like this would be good for the sport. In many other sports -- major league baseball and NFL football especially -- the referees often admit to errors in calls after the fact. This doesn't change the outcome of the game, but it does let the public know that the officials are trying their best.

    In figure skating, by contrast, everything has a cloak-and-dagger aura to it.

    Secondly, SusanBeth is quite right to say that the only opinions that count are those of the technical specialist and his two partners. This set-up has been criticized (for instance by Mrs. Bianchetti) as putting too much power in the hands of a single person.

    But the other side of the coin is that it correspondingly takes power out of the hands of the judges who are nominated by and beholden to the national federations, each with its own particular agenda.

    MM

  3. #48
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    Sasha would have only lost 1.14 more points or so if the flip was called a fall. It's a mute point for now. That said I think it wasn't called a fall because Sasha's butt or knee didn't hit the ice and she kept moving even if slowely. I would have called it a fall but I don't think it was a caller mistake either. Mrs. Bianchetti has an agenda. Any time she can make COP look bad she points it out. Her opinion is bias to me-she has an political reason for saying what she does. Not that that is wrong-I would like to have pro cop, nuterual and anti cop have some type of public discussion/debate once worlds is over. This was the first quad for the new judging system and it would nice if there was a debate on if it was a good thing or not.

  4. #49
    Custom Title Joesitz's Avatar
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    I've been saying that from day 1! The Tech Asst has the most powerful position in the NJS. And I read recently that the Caller should call an attempted lutz failed due to a rock over to the bi edge when he sees it. Has he ever called that? or has he left the flutz to the judges?

    Does anyone know of any calls that were questioned or is it God doing the calling?

    Even all those posters who see underrotated jumps of skaters challenging their favorites, and the Caller never mentions the underrotation. the question is: Can we still call an underrotated jump if the Caller doesn't?

    Joe

  5. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joesitz
    I've been saying that from day 1! The Tech Asst has the most powerful position in the NJS. And I read recently that the Caller should call an attempted lutz failed due to a rock over to the bi edge when he sees it. Has he ever called that? or has he left the flutz to the judges?

    Does anyone know of any calls that were questioned or is it God doing the calling?

    Even all those posters who see underrotated jumps of skaters challenging their favorites, and the Caller never mentions the underrotation. the question is: Can we still call an underrotated jump if the Caller doesn't?

    Joe
    Yes, if we and see the misstep, miskate, the Caller should as well. We do, or SHOULD understand the rules, and so should the Caller/judges.

    True, the official record, will not charge Cohen for the second fall, but in fact she did fall twice and is irrevalent to the outcome. But what if not charging her1.00 deduction did make a difference between Silver and Bronze?

    Overall, if believe judging in the NJS has no more equity than 6.0.

    All the talk about the judges reviewing the skate move which may be in question, how does that happen?, The scores are to be posted in such a short time or the audience boos and more contraversy upon the judges can occur,

  6. #51
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    As far as I remember Cousins did have some mistake in his Olympic freeskate (a singled jump?), but I still enjoyed his performance very much. Generally I would say that it does not matter to me one bit, whether a gold medalist or any medalist has one or more mistakes as long as those performances can be considered to be the best of the evening. Or with CoP the lead after the short programme is such that it even allows mistakes.

  7. #52
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    For the record, my beef was with stating opinion like it was absolute and official fact. Opine to your heart's content, I certainly do. However, as far as the judging goes, Sasha fell once.
    Last edited by SusanBeth; 03-06-2006 at 06:49 AM.

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