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Thread: Medalists who have fallen in Olympics

  1. #31
    Custom Title antmanb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mafke
    Similarly, IIRC Robin Cousins fell during his SP in 1980 olys. But it wasn't during a required element I think so wasn't cause for a deduction.
    Was that at the Olympics - i thought that happened at europeans? Maybe it happened at both?

    Ant

  2. #32
    Gadfly and Bon Vivant Mafke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by antmanb
    Was that at the Olympics - i thought that happened at europeans? Maybe it happened at both?

    Ant
    I don't think US tv covered Europeans then especially in prime time. I have a clear memory during those olympics though of Dick Button explaining why the fall shouldn't hurt him because it wasn't because he was trying to do something difficult or words to that effect. I don't remember seeing Cousins SP live (I was working and attending classes at nights then and with no vcr's I missed big parts of the competition.

  3. #33
    Custom Title antmanb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mafke
    I don't think US tv covered Europeans then especially in prime time. I have a clear memory during those olympics though of Dick Button explaining why the fall shouldn't hurt him because it wasn't because he was trying to do something difficult or words to that effect. I don't remember seeing Cousins SP live (I was working and attending classes at nights then and with no vcr's I missed big parts of the competition.
    To be honest i wasn't thinking from memory (being only 2 in 1980!) but more from commentary that Robin made during a world or European competition - the one where Maria Butyrskaya was competing skating to Otonal in that white dress and near the end she skates backwards and has a "click of death" moment where she clicks heel and toe of her blades together and falls down. Robin at the end said "for those of you that remember dortmund 1980 i did the exact same thing."

    Having looked it up dortmund was the world championships.

    Ant

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by SusanBeth
    According to the way the ISU defines a fall, Sasha fell once. The way other people define a fall is not pertinent to the judging.
    WOW, Realllllly, so you say a skater may fall many times and this is counted onlly one time by the Olympic jugdes???

  5. #35
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    I am saying that it doesn't matter if you think it's a fall. It's doesn't matter what I think constitutes a fall. There are rules in place defining a fall. The referee is obliged to go by the official definition when determining whether a fall has occurred. Therefore, as far as the judging is concerned, Sasha fell once.

    I hope that was clear enough for you to understand.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by SusanBeth
    According to the way the ISU defines a fall, Sasha fell once. The way other people define a fall is not pertinent to the judging.
    What about Yamaguchi?. She only put her hand down.

  7. #37
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    That was under 6.0, so there's no way to know what (or if) the judges took off for it. I don't know how a fall was defined in 1992.

    I am sure the definition and judging of falls changed over the years of 6.0. I remember reading in an autobigraphy (early 70's) that judges weren't supposed to take off points for falls. They just weren't suppose to give credit for the jump.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by SusanBeth
    I am saying that it doesn't matter if you think it's a fall. It's doesn't matter what I think constitutes a fall. There are rules in place defining a fall. The referee is obliged to go by the official definition when determining whether a fall has occurred. Therefore, as far as the judging is concerned, Sasha fell once.

    I hope that was clear enough for you to understand.
    I don't exactly recall the wording of the new definition of a fall, but whatever it is, it needs to be re-worked. Because there is NO WAY that Sasha's second fall should not have been counted as a fall. I mean, you can't see that mistake and say that she "landed" the jump, and if you didn't land a jump, then you fell. It wasn't a mere step-out or turn-out.

  9. #39
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    Actually, according to the OFFICIAL rules it's not a fall.

    But in my book, it is...she clearly lost balance.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by dancindiva03
    I don't exactly recall the wording of the new definition of a fall, but whatever it is, it needs to be re-worked. Because there is NO WAY that Sasha's second fall should not have been counted as a fall. I mean, you can't see that mistake and say that she "landed" the jump, and if you didn't land a jump, then you fell. It wasn't a mere step-out or turn-out.
    According to Sonia Bianchetti. It was a mistake by techniq panel. But it won't affect the overall result. Just show that how influential the technique panel could be in NJS.

    http://www.mkforum.net/forum/showpos...46&postcount=1

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by dancindiva03
    I don't exactly recall the wording of the new definition of a fall, but whatever it is, it needs to be re-worked. Because there is NO WAY that Sasha's second fall should not have been counted as a fall. I mean, you can't see that mistake and say that she "landed" the jump, and if you didn't land a jump, then you fell. It wasn't a mere step-out or turn-out.
    I haven't looked at the protocols. How much credit, if any, did she get for that second boo boo? It seemed to me she didn't even make the rotations.

    Joe

  12. #42
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    IIRC the ISU changed the definition of a "fall" prior to the 2005-2006 season. Before, it was counted as a fall only if "neither skate could maintain contact with the ice," or something like that. So skaters were saving falls by somehow keeping one blade on the ice while sitting on their bottom.

    So they changed the rule to include language along the lines of, "if it quacks like a duck, it's a duck." In particular, a hand down is not per se a fall, but if you are supporting your full weight with your hands, that is a fall.

    MZheng, that is a very interesting piece by Mrs. Bianchetti. I think it deserves it's own thread. Do you mind if I start one? I certainly agree that these Olympic games were the worst in memory from the spectators' point of view. I am not sure whether the CoP is to blame or whether Speedy is right when he says the athletes just lack talent.

    MM
    Last edited by Mathman; 03-04-2006 at 08:48 AM.

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman
    MZheng, that is a very interesting piece by Mrs. Bianchetti. I think it deserves it's own thread. Do you mind if I start one? I certainly agree that these Olympic games were the worst in memory from the spectators' point of view. I am not sure whether the CoP is to blame or whether Speedy is right when he says the athletes just lack talent.

    MM
    Yes, Larry, go ahead start one, if you feel it's OK. This link was from a poster at MKF, who is on mailing list of Sonia Bianchetti. I don't know the rule here.

    I do agree most of what her saying regarding the NJS and Game. But I don't like some comments of personal attackting, which imo was too politics. I'm alergy to politics, anything sounded there are some politics agenda behind cause my suspicious. lol

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by SusanBeth
    I am saying that it doesn't matter if you think it's a fall. It's doesn't matter what I think constitutes a fall. There are rules in place defining a fall. The referee is obliged to go by the official definition when determining whether a fall has occurred. Therefore, as far as the judging is concerned, Sasha fell once.

    I hope that was clear enough for you to understand.
    SusanB*, now that you have Mathman, and MZheng'a post to review, perhaps you understand the point of what constitutes a fall. And what was not judged as a fall..
    Perhaps, viewing the World Champs, you will feel more informed.

    Cheers.

    O
    Last edited by orchid; 03-04-2006 at 11:57 PM.

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by orchid
    SusanB*, now that you have Mathman, and MZheng'a post to review, perhaps you understand the point of what constitutes a fall. And what was not judged as a fall..
    Perhaps, viewing the World Champs, you will feel more informed.

    Cheers.

    O
    I see nothing in those posts that contradicts mine. Let me try to explain this one last time.

    I am saying that it doesn't matter if you think it's a fall. It's doesn't matter what I think constitutes a fall. There are rules in place defining a fall.
    With all due respect to them, what MM, MZheng, Bianchetti, Noah Webster, or my MIL thinks should count as a fall is not the point. It's not their definition in play and it's not their call to make.

    The referee is obliged to go by the official definition when determining whether a fall has occurred.
    It's the Refs call to make. He knows the rules and he applies them. His opinion is the one that counts. Does that mean everyone is going to agree? Hell no, this is figure skating. It does mean his opinion counts and
    Therefore, as far as the judging is concerned, Sasha fell once
    IMO, going around implying there were 2 "official" falls is strictly untrue. The person, who had to decide if the majority of Sasha's weight was on her hand or on her feet, ruled it was not a fall.

    For the record, if you want to take liberties with my name, you might as well type SusanB*tch. Some people might not get SusanB* and your efforts would be wasted.
    Last edited by SusanBeth; 03-05-2006 at 03:43 AM.

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