New Ice-Dance World Champions
I think, we are looking forward to a unique World Championships in Ice Dance, at least "decision-wise"!
Those old "judging by our presribed , safe reflexes" seems not to really work this time.
THERE IS TIME TO REALLY VOTE, JUDGES!!
Now, there is the time, judges can give their marks in the way, they really wants to.
There will be not many competitions like this in the next 4 years with so little "pre-judice".
1. There are no Russian favourites.
2. The Gold and Bronze medallists from last year ( and Olympic) are not there.
3. The Silver medallists will be there, it is time to answer: did they got the silver last year , because everybody thoughts, they will be not able to participate at the Olympic Games , and this way judges can "lessen" the risk, the Russians will facing with a real contender there ?? (Judges seemed to be uncomfortable with Belbin/Agosto at the Oly, giving them 6th in Compulsory and 4th in freedance -I think deservedly....) It can be a different decision, when they had to choose a silver medallist than they have to decide the WORLD CHAMPION!!
4. There are some couples around, always been the "political victims" in their entire carrier. They are about finishing their eligible carrier now.
Are judges able to say "SORRY" for them after putting them into the shade for so many years? Those couples (Drobiazko/Vanagas, Debruil/Lauzon, Denkova/Staviyski) won't affect the results of a far future, they can be judged -FINALLY- in a honest way.
And of course : [B]the judges can themselves feel free to judge what they will see [/B]on the ice. What a rare possibility for them!!!!!! It is time to show us, they are STILL ABLE to see Ice Dance as a competition and a sport.
What do you think, who will get the crown under these "curious" circumstances?
Can be Chait/Shaknovski and Domnina/Shabalin close to the podium (i.e. the past and the future?).
I like pie.
Tanith has to still skate clean... Ben too (but she seems to have more problems than he does)
I don't think we'll see funky judging... but I will probably be in the minority with that thought
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I'm thinking maybe Dubreuil and Lauzon have a good chance of winning, though Belbin and Agosto are definitely the favorites. Dubreuil and Lauzon will have home court advantage, and they'll have the sympathy of the crowd, and maybe even the judges after what happened at the Olympics. Whether they will be able to be in top physical shape and she be fully recovered is another story. I would love to see them medal, at least. I think they're better than Grushina and Goncharov, and maybe even Tanith and Ben, with a clean performance of that beautiful free dance. Also Dubreuil and Lauzon beat Grushina and Goncharov and Belbin and Agosto in the compulsories at the Olympics. I never like to count out Denkova and Staviski either.
But in terms of the topic of this thread, I will as well be very glad to see some new ice dancing champions.
The most unfair thing of all would be to give the gold medal to D/L out of sympathy for their fall at the Olympics, if they did not skate the best of the teams.
The reality is they probably will not be able to skate at their best, considering that they were off the ice for 3 weeks and have had just one week of practice leading up to Worlds. No doubt Marie France is still experiencing pain and stiffness and the long flight from Lyon will not help. Dan Zhang in a recent interview said SHE was still having pain and could hardly put her full weight on her injured leg, and she's had one extra week to recuperate. The Zhangs said they were only at about 70% of their full capability because the injury has been slow to heal. I suspect the same will be true for D/L.
If they do not skate their best and win gold over superior performances, that would be a disgrace. I sincerely hope they skate as best they can, and come away with a medal fairly won, but not a gift given at the expense of the rightful winners.
In my heart, I'm actually Canadian....
What an interesting point! I never even thought about it, that this Worlds is going to come down to several couples that the judges will only give the "leftover" medals to after they place their favorites in 1st, or 1st and 2nd, and/or a group of couples that they just don't seem to be all that enthused about. I wonder if the scores are going to be low as a result of this??
Seems to me, if they're going to truly judge what's going on out there and give an accurate assessment of true technique, etc, that Drobiazko/Vanagas and Denkova/Staviyski ought to be the top 2. Tanith & Ben are terrific and do great stuff, but they still have yet to acheive the overall polish of those 2 couples.
I think Dubreil & Lauzon will probably be on the podium unless they really really mess up. And if it turns out, based on how the overall competition plays out, that it's more of a "tribute" medal or "dues paying" medal than anything else, I would be OK with that, just as I was with Winkler & Lohse's in Dortmund. So many times the judges keep someone OFF the podium for reasons that having nothing to do with what took place on the ice, if they want to put a talented couple that's been around forever and ever ON the podium under the same criteria, it's fine with me. I know that seems rather inconsistent with having a desire for fair and accurate judging, but let's face it, in this category it never really seems to be either all that much anyway, so if they want to throw a bone to someone every now and then, I'm all for it. It's one of the things I like best about depleted-field post-Olympic Worlds' anyway -- gives some of the "almost made it on the podium before but not quite" skaters a chance to get up there, like Peggy Schwarz in Pairs in '98. (Katya Gordeeva, upon hearing Peggy's name announced at a warmup at the '98 Worlds: "Peggy Schwarz? Oh, my God, is SHE still around??" )
I would have no problem with a "tribute" bronze medal if the performances deserved it, but a "tribute" GOLD medal is beyond the pale.
I'm excited to see how the judging goes. And happy that N/K and G/G won't be stopping better teams from winning medals here!
There are 4 teams I want on the podium SO badly (Lithuanians, Canadians, Bulgarians, French) but sadly that can't happen.
I´m happy you say that D/V and Denk/Sta are better than the others and it´s so frustrating and sad that people forget them just because they are from small countrys, their scores are so ridiculous (components are more than outrageous) (a detail: D/V was the only couple who fall in od that got low scores in components (2 points) than in technics, it´s a nonsense) .
Originally Posted by JonnyCoop
It´s make me feel bad ´cause I love dance and I see year after year how better couples (from not powerful countrys) are ignored.
I don´t trust ISU
At 2004 worlds when Den/Sta complained about their bronze, a person from ISU said that if do it they will never be at podium again.
I´m neither lithuanian nor bulgarian.
I understand that people cheer their compatriots but it´s a nonsense say that some couple actually be better than them. ( One thing: Personally I don´t like Bourne and Kraatz so much, I prefer Lobacheva and Averbukh, but I know that they were better than russian couple at 2003 worlds)
I think they are actually the best symbiosis between superb technic and feelings, strong, energy and beauty.
I´m sad because people doesn´t appreciate the really well done things. (To me it´s like say that Meg Ryan is better actress than Julianne Moore , for example)
That´s what I think...
Last edited by saramago; 03-17-2006 at 01:26 PM.
Well said, saramago. D/V and Denkova/Staviski have constantly been underscored and underappreciated. Enough is enough.
I'm SOOO happy to see I'm not the only one, who so disappointed with the way
the Lithuanians and Bulgarians are killed for so many years and let's say NON-STOP. Disgusting.
I'm not from either of those countries, anyway, just love figure skating and able to realize the quality!
I think, that is the last chance to the judges to do it in a fair way, because next year will be another story I think, because the preparation of the next Oly (where a Russian has to win with -maybe- an American silver and a possibly French speaking(French? Canadian?) bronze, because of the power of inner politics and money /money is not for the judges, don't take me wrong, it is because the broadcasts , advertising, keeping the interest up in big countries, to sell the programs etc./).
It is sad.
Nothing wrong if the medallists are coming from these countries, when they are the best one's(like in many cases) . But when the situation is not like that, I can't go with that.
Are they surprised, why the popularity is going down?
That is the simpliest reason. Most of the spectator wants to see the best one's on the podium. Ice dance is the discipline, which failes on that too many times...
(it is really started , when Torvill/Dean got only bronze in Lillehammer, because judges was not able to handle that, the best couple ever came back after 10 years break with one of the best program we've ever seen, and when the order was already done a year ago. It costed the OGM to Usova/Zhulin, because the judges became confused a bit. Without Torvill/Dean , Usova/Zhulin never should loose against Grishcuk/Platov in Lillehammer. Everything were go in the way than a year before. Sure....
I was tired to read some very weak explanations that time-because that was a very loudy scandal with the protest of the spectators in the hall and in front of the TV as well, when the "officials" (maffiosos??) said, T/D program was slow etc. The best ever "ball-room"-like ice dance program I've seen, in this way, it was even better than Bolero. Looked like one of the best movie shot from the "Golden Era" of Gene Kelly's time in Hollywood. Just unforgettable....
Notice that: I'm not even British. Even with that, I hope the Kerrs will have a slight chance, and judges will allow them to be on or close to the podium soon in the coming years.
They are one of those very few one's, who can entertain the audience with their technical capacity and refiness.
Great thread Big Deal. I've just finished going through the Detailed Scores from the OWGs, lol, and have hardly had the chance to think about Worlds. Also, I've been unsure as to who would compete in each discipline, at least from the media and forum speculation. I would say I feel sure now, but I don't think I'll really be sure until each skater/team starts skating each aspect of the competition. We've got so many really banged up skaters scheduled to compete, which tends to happen every Olympic year. Is it just me or does it seem to anyone else that more skaters are competing with more injuries this Olympic year than usual? (Slightly off-topic, I realize.)
Back on track: I've been a long-time admirer of Drobiazko/Vanagas as well as Denkova/Staviyski, though the latter haven't been top competetors as long as the former. I'm afraid D/V may be suffering a bit from the "Gotta Adjust to the COP Blues." Their FD in particular seemed to lack what Saramago described so well as the symbiosis between their spot-on technique and wonderful passion (I paraphrase slightly). As was noted during both the OD and FD, many of the couples, especially the veterans, seemed to be thinking in their analytical brain centers, to be very general, through their programs rather than letting it happen through "muscle memory" and feeling.
Perhaps because they've had more experience with the COP, D/S seem to be the stronger of these two teams for these Worlds. OTOH, I've seen D/S do better FD programs in terms of choreography.
Back to the judging, I must say I was impressed with how accurate the judging seemed for these OWGs; although I confess I'm still not sure about a lot of the dance rules and the criteria for what constitutes a superior rotational lift, for example. Of course I always hope every aspect for every discipline of FS is judged fairly; but given the confluence of past medal winners being out, using the COP, and I hope a lack of "placement by politics," perhaps we'll get to see how the NJS is supposed to work for ice dance and I'll be able to make some progress in terms of understanding the dance COP better.
But I ain't holdin' my breath.
Best of luck to all the teams and (I never thought I'd be saying this) let's hope Worlds '06 Dance doesn't turn into another splatfest.
"Tribute" medals irk me beyond anything else, which is why the Pairs Olympic silver medal this year is more or a farce than last year's double gold.
Originally Posted by chuckm
In my heart, I'm actually Canadian....
ITA. I have to admit to being rather disappointed in the free dance of D/V in Torino; I hope they've done some retooling. And I think D/S, tho their free this year is not one of their best either (this could in part be due to the injury problems they've had), are still doing their best to do great innovative stuff despite a system that won't really allow it.
Originally Posted by Rgirl
In my heart, I'm actually Canadian....
See, I personally don't consider the Zhangs' OSM a TRIBUTE medal. That was more of a SYMPATHY medal, or perhaps a WE ADMIRE YOUR GUTS medal, kind of along the same principle as Eldredge getting overinflated marks at Skate America in '97 when he dislocated his shoulder in the warmup. Those, I do have a problem with. To me a "tribute" medal is one that rewards a long career with a lot of really good programs and performances that never really got acknowledged in the final results. Though I agree with chuckm that it shouldn't go so far as to be gold. (How about silver??)
Originally Posted by antmanb
Yeha i see what you mean. To me sympathy medals and tribute medals are both the same - a skewing of the true results, that is you take the reason for the tribute or the sympathy away and mark what was done on the ice, the result would have been different. Either way it makes a mockery of the judging which is why in ice dance i never pay attention to the placements since they're all made up mostly!
Originally Posted by JonnyCoop