Is Emily The Next Sasha, with respect to jump consistency? | Page 2 | Golden Skate

Is Emily The Next Sasha, with respect to jump consistency?

R.D.

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Everyone's just tired. Oddly enough, Kimmie didn't seem to show it as much and was able to go all out. The others had simply had it, especially Cohen.
 

heyang

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Not every skater is going to be the 'elegant' skater. Emily is a power skater. She doesn't need to be another Sasha or Peggy, etc. Emily needs to develop a style - just as her sister still needs to develop a style.

I wouldn't call Irina elegance on ice, but she's had a very successful career. Katerina Witt wasn't the skinniest skater - she had lots of curves and was also very successful. When Midori Ito lost weight, she lost her jumps because she didn't have the muscle anymore.

I don't think that there's anything wrong with Emily's weight that's causing her jump problems. She didn't have one season where she was a stick landing all her jumps and then another season where she was heavier and couldn't jump. Her weight hasn't fluctuated in appearance since she started appearing at Senior Nationals.

She's a long way from being a repeat of Sasha in every sense. I think her failing on some of her jumps might have been related to adreanline during her 1st season as a contender on the Sr level. Naomi Nari Nam was practically hurling herself out of control during her 2nd Sr Nationals.

With regards to Sasha, Peggy may have said it correctly when she said that Sasha's just not a strong competitor. Success isn't just about talent - it also involves ambition, drive and discipline. Christy Ness has said that Kristi Y was not a natural jumper, but she overcame that and one would never have imagined that jumps were not easy for her.
 
Joined
Jul 11, 2003
yes, Emily to lose a few pounds. That would help her imensely. Then concentrate on clean routies. She's good but still in the 'work in progress stage'.

Joe
 

orchid

On the Ice
Joined
Oct 28, 2004
jsteam4501s said:
I think that unless Emily loses some weight and becomes smoother in her delivery, she will have a hard time competing with Kimmie, Katy, and maybe even Chrissy Zukowski and Alissa Czisny, whom I expect to bring herself back up eventually.

I think part of her problem is that she seems to be very conscious of "looking happy" on the ice, resulting in a lot of redundant arm-waving and "excited" movements. Presentation is important, but when it is forced it detracts from the overall quality of her skating. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy her enthusiasm, but when the commentators, like Peggy Fleming, are hard pressed to mention anything other than her enthusiasm, it means other things are lacking.

Unless she works on achieving an identifiable style and consistency, I don't see her doing any better than a bronze at future Nationals.

Exactly right, spot on, a perfect analysis
 

R.D.

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
I think Emily is OK. She may or may not benefit from losing a LITTLE BIT of weight, but I think people are making too much of it. She appears normal size to me.
 

dancindiva03

Match Penalty
Joined
Jan 22, 2004
FauveNik said:
IMO there is no comparision between the two. They each have their own style and qualities.

One thing I did notice that this was the Fatest world comp ever! I truly have never seen so many over weight girls in high end skating before! Now not to say in the every day life, these girls are just fine, but for skating,, no way, to heavy. It affects the flow and the jumping big time. Not only the womens, I noticed it in pairs and dance! Personally I hope its not a trend. They are only hurting themselves trying to skate and jump with the extra weight. When they are 40 they will be in need of opperations and replacements.
JMO!
Fauve
Fatest? Please, do humor us with who you think is so overweight! I don't think that there was even one skater that is even remotely close to being overweight! Not even by skating standards. No, their not all waifs like Sasha, but so what? Sasha's had more problems with injuries than many of these other skaters!
 

R.D.

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Well, MK's ONLY injury happened to be one that took her out of the Olympics. It's the perspective you put it in IMO
 

chuckm

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 31, 2003
Country
United-States
I think Emily needs to back off a bit from her bull-in-the-china-shop style. She heads so aggressively into her jumps that if she misses the landing she goes down like a tree falling.

She looked as if she had gained a few lbs. since Nationals, and the weight gain made that tendency worse. She needs to be careful about what she puts into her body, because genetics is not on her side. Not to say she needs to starve herself, but she needs to be very judicious about her dietary choices.

I, too, find all the arm-waving obnoxious. My rule of thumb is that if I become distracted with what the skater is doing with his/her arms, then the arms are being used much too much.

Emily took the 3L out of her FS---good move. She was falling on it every time. But she still didn't have a clean FS. She finished 8th at Worlds, down from 7th at the Olympics. But with Slutskaya and Arakawa gone, if she had maintained her Olympic placement, she could have been 5th. In effect, she has dropped 3 places, not one.

I think Emily's biggest competition next season will be Katy Taylor. If Kwan does come back, Emily could easily find herself off the Worlds team.
 

antmanb

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 5, 2004
nubka said:
While watching Emily skate her LP today, I found myself holding my breath to see if she would be able to get through her program without a fall. I really like her energetic way of skating, but lately she seems to have problems skating clean.

I'm to the point with Emily (as with Sasha, too,) where I find I'm almost waiting for the fall to happen...

I must say i can't really understand why you already have a such a fixed view of a skaters who's only just completed her first complete season in seniors. I think hughes has had a fantastic senior season debut finishing very respectably in her first outing at the Olympics and then at worlds. Since to be knowledge she's never skated a totally clean competitive LP i wonder why you would be expecting her to perform one every time she takes to the ice?

Ant
 

antmanb

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 5, 2004
jsteam4501s said:
I think that unless Emily loses some weight and becomes smoother in her delivery, she will have a hard time competing with Kimmie, Katy, and maybe even Chrissy Zukowski and Alissa Czisny, whom I expect to bring herself back up eventually.

I think part of her problem is that she seems to be very conscious of "looking happy" on the ice, resulting in a lot of redundant arm-waving and "excited" movements. Presentation is important, but when it is forced it detracts from the overall quality of her skating. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy her enthusiasm, but when the commentators, like Peggy Fleming, are hard pressed to mention anything other than her enthusiasm, it means other things are lacking.

Unless she works on achieving an identifiable style and consistency, I don't see her doing any better than a bronze at future Nationals.

Well maybe Peggy Flemming is a dimwit who spends too long hyping her one favourite from each season rather than presenting anything worthwhile in her commentary? The Eurosport commentators had lots of complimentary things to say about Hughes, yes they mentioned her enthusiasm, they also mentioned the speed with which she skates, which i i was personally grateful for because i thought on TV she looked slow but they cleared that up for me. They complimented her jumping technique, and i would would ad in my comments here that her technique on the flip and lutz is fantastic - she must be one of the few female skaters he actually jumps a true Lutz and a True flip where nearly everyone else in the field either flutzes or lips.

I'm not wild about her presentation at the moment and it will improve over time but for now i think she's certainly more graceful than Meissner and that will only improve.

She could definitnely do with getting a couple of decent costumes for next season because this seasons were not good - the SP dress in particular i thought was gross!

Ant
 

antmanb

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 5, 2004
MsLutzy said:
How can you possibly say that Sasha is nothing special? In fact, ANY one of those skaters who skated at Worlds were something special. The fact that Sasha has always ranked around top 3 in these competitions make her even more special than others.

Sasha has pushed the envelope of skating. She isn't satisfied with being average. Her spirals are top-notch, her spins are exquisite, and she is always thinking of new positions. Plus, she really feels the program and skates TO the music, unlike many other skaters who only skate like the music is the background accompaniment. So that's why I don't think Emily can be the next Sasha. Their recent inconsistancies may be only one of the few things they have in common. Emily still has a long way to go in smoothing out her rough edges.

I think that's why its never a worthwhile comparison to compare a skater who is at the start of her senior skating career with one who has been skating on the senior circuit for what...6 years? Its apples and oranges - Hughes has a way to go to yet but since she's at the start of her career i have no doubt she will. If you recall Sasha's edge were very rough and wobbly for at least half of her career but she cleaned them up, her development as a skater has been wonderful to watch and i don't see any reason why hughes wouldn't continue to improve.

And i while i do agree that finally this season Sasha has started skating to her music as opposed to through it, this is not something she's always done. Look back at SLC and she sakts through her music. She has slowly improved in all aspects of her skating...but i don't think she's done anything to "push the envelope" with the possible exception of spiral positions.

Ant
 

anything_for_skating

Final Flight
Joined
Jan 7, 2006
anything_for_skating said:
Sorry, but I am watching all the competitions, and tell me, when was the worlds or olympics when Sasha didn't make a mistake???:think:

Special flexibility? Yes, I agree with that. But you can see that new skaters are coming with even harder spirals to do. Martinova, Gedevanishvili.

It's not true that other skaters are skating with music just like a backround.

By the way, Sasha jumps flip and lutz on the same way, didn't you notice it?

All skaters are trying new positions.

And REAL special skaters are Irina,Plusenko,Carolina Kostner and Lambiel. I think even Jeffrey Buttle. But only 5 of them. There will be another Emily, another Sasha, another Joubert and another Michelle. But never again any of those 5.:eek:


Why nobody is noticing what I posted?
 

attyfan

Custom Title
Medalist
Joined
Mar 1, 2004
Emily won't be another Sasha. After all, Emily, like another American skater
(a) came in 6th at her Senior Nats debut -- poor short; great FS; (b) medaled at Jr. Worlds (while winner of Sr. Nats went to Worlds in former Communist country; had worst skate of her life; unexpectedly failed to medal); (c) returned to Nats; got first medal, but did not get named to Oly team originally because last year's Nat champ needed medical bye; and (d) finished 8th at her Sr. Worlds debut. Emily is the next MK!!
 

nubka

Final Flight
Joined
Aug 19, 2003
Wow, all these replies, and stiil, nobody understands the meaning of my original post....

This thread is NOT to compare Emily and Sasha's artisitry, etc., or to imply to Emily will be the "next" Sahsa - she won't.

It was to point out Emily's recent problem getting trough her LP without falling on a jump, and that my hopes that she will not follow in Sasha's footsteps of not being able deliver a clean LP (or two clean programs babck to back,) when it really counts.

That's it folks...
 

antmanb

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 5, 2004
nubka said:
Wow, all these replies, and stiil, nobody understands the meaning of my original post....

This thread is NOT to compare Emily and Sasha's artisitry, etc., or to imply to Emily will be the "next" Sahsa - she won't.

It was to point out Emily's recent problem getting trough her LP without falling on a jump, and that my hopes that she will not follow in Sasha's footsteps of not being able deliver a clean LP (or two clean programs babck to back,) when it really counts.

That's it folks...

But saying that Emily can be likened to Sasha because she can't get through an LP without falling is a little premature - the statement about Sasha is applicable to the last six years of her competitive career whereas Emily is only in her first full season as a senior.

My question back to you is - do you think all of the other skaters who fell in the LP are also likened to Sasha and do you fear they too will forever fall in their programs?

Ant
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
anything_for_skating said:
Sorry, but I am watching all the competitions, and tell me, when was the worlds or olympics when Sasha didn't make a mistake???:think:

Special flexibility? Yes, I agree with that. But you can see that new skaters are coming with even harder spirals to do. Martinova, Gedevanishvili.

It's not true that other skaters are skating with music just like a backround.

By the way, Sasha jumps flip and lutz on the same way, didn't you notice it?

All skaters are trying new positions.

And REAL special skaters are Irina,Plusenko,Carolina Kostner and Lambiel. I think even Jeffrey Buttle. But only 5 of them. There will be another Emily, another Sasha, another Joubert and another Michelle. But never again any of those 5.:eek:
Hey, Anything-for-skating, I noticed your post. :) I agree with all your points. Sasha has made many mistakes at the worst possible times in international competition. Other skaters also can do difficult spirals exhibiting great flecibility. Sasha does not have a monopoly on musical interpretation. Her Lutz is a flip. Irina, Plushenko and Lambiel are exceptional skaters, and Carolina has great potential despite an off year.

The only thing I disagree about is, to me there will never be another Michelle. :)

Your friend,


Mathman :)
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
nubka said:
Wow, all these replies, and stiil, nobody understands the meaning of my original post....
:laugh: Figure skating fans are no different from everyone else. We would rather talk than listen. I think we all just saw the title "Is Emily the next Sasha," and away we went, LOL.

I do agree with Antman, though. Emily is just starting out. It is too early to guess about whether she will be able to come up big with error-free programs in the crunch, or not.

My own personal opinion is that she has already shown that she can compete when it matters most. Although she did not skate perfectly, she laid it down at U.S. Nationals, with a trip to the Olympics on the line, and made the podium ahead of (IMO) more talented skaters like Katy Taylor, Bebe Liang and Alissa Czisny.

MM :)
 
Joined
Jul 11, 2003
nubka - Thanks for the clarification of what you meant.

Emily is still quite young and was able to get in an Olympic and Worlds skate. This should be positive learing experience for her. If she doesn't know that falling is a no no then she has a problem. Top six skaters can get a way with a fall during competition but lower tier skaters can not, imo.

Like Kimmie, she is a skater with certain skills lacking. I think judging her right now as being inconsistent is too early. Give her another year or two for those clean programs to come.

Joe
 

R.D.

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
nubka said:
Wow, all these replies, and stiil, nobody understands the meaning of my original post....

This thread is NOT to compare Emily and Sasha's artisitry, etc., or to imply to Emily will be the "next" Sahsa - she won't.

It was to point out Emily's recent problem getting trough her LP without falling on a jump, and that my hopes that she will not follow in Sasha's footsteps of not being able deliver a clean LP (or two clean programs babck to back,) when it really counts.

That's it folks...


Come on, this is emily's first senior season. I'd wait until five years later (about the period of time Cohen has been in the full scene) and she still hasn't been clean back to back to raise this question again. JMO
 

chuckm

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 31, 2003
Country
United-States
attyfan said:
Emily won't be another Sasha. After all, Emily, like another American skater
(a) came in 6th at her Senior Nats debut -- poor short; great FS; (b) medaled at Jr. Worlds (while winner of Sr. Nats went to Worlds in former Communist country; had worst skate of her life; unexpectedly failed to medal); (c) returned to Nats; got first medal, but did not get named to Oly team originally because last year's Nat champ needed medical bye; and (d) finished 8th at her Sr. Worlds debut. Emily is the next MK!!

Michelle was 12 at her Senior Nationals debut in 1993, when she finished 6th. Emily was 16 at her debut in 2005. Michelle won her first World Championship at 15 in 1996. Emily is just a bit behind.

Michelle WON Junior Worlds at 13, in 1994. She also went to 1994 Worlds the same year, when Nancy Kerrigan declined to go, and finished 8th. (Kerrigan had failed to medal at Worlds in 1993. Kwan did not go to 1993 JW.)
Emily went to 2005 Junior Worlds at 16, and won a bronze medal. She went to Worlds the following year and finished 8th--at 17.

Michelle won nearly every competition she entered when she was 16. Emily has won zero competitions at the National or International Senior level since skating at US Nationals in 2005. Another MK? Sorry, Emily is already way too old to be another MK.
 
Top