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Thread: Is Emily The Next Sasha, with respect to jump consistency?

  1. #61
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    Could there be a connection between extreme flexibility and the inability to land jumps on a consistent basis? I think that Emily's falls are due to her inexperience (MK was not doing a lot of clean performances on her first year on the senior international circuit; Tara had at least one fall per event; etc.), but I think Sasha's problems are physical. If they are connected to her earlier back injuries (Sasha's tendency to fall pre-dates any reports of groin injuries), then Alissa should be OK (in that correcting her technique should help with the jumps), but if it is connected to flexibility, then Alissa might share the problems.

  2. #62
    Custom Title antmanb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by attyfan
    Could there be a connection between extreme flexibility and the inability to land jumps on a consistent basis? I think that Emily's falls are due to her inexperience (MK was not doing a lot of clean performances on her first year on the senior international circuit; Tara had at least one fall per event; etc.), but I think Sasha's problems are physical. If they are connected to her earlier back injuries (Sasha's tendency to fall pre-dates any reports of groin injuries), then Alissa should be OK (in that correcting her technique should help with the jumps), but if it is connected to flexibility, then Alissa might share the problems.
    While we're addig to the theory...Bobek...extreme flexibilty and not good landing jumps...of course the smoking, partying, slacking off and changing coaches as often as her underpants are factors that may have affected her jumping more than her flexibilty!!

    I am being flippant but not mean cos i loved Bobek's skating...and her bad girl rep! People who think Sasha's a bad girl should know she's not even a quarter of the bad girl Bobek was!!!

    Ant

  3. #63
    Custom Title antmanb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by attyfan
    Could there be a connection between extreme flexibility and the inability to land jumps on a consistent basis? I think that Emily's falls are due to her inexperience (MK was not doing a lot of clean performances on her first year on the senior international circuit; Tara had at least one fall per event; etc.), but I think Sasha's problems are physical. If they are connected to her earlier back injuries (Sasha's tendency to fall pre-dates any reports of groin injuries), then Alissa should be OK (in that correcting her technique should help with the jumps), but if it is connected to flexibility, then Alissa might share the problems.
    And add Gedevanishvili too - she's really flexible and has struggled with her jumps...though it is her first year on the senior circuit too...

    hmmmm maybe we have a good theory here...anyone else we can think of?

    Fleur Maxwell - she is too and she can't get the harder triples for love nor money.

    Ant

  4. #64
    Custom Title Joesitz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by attyfan
    Could there be a connection between extreme flexibility and the inability to land jumps on a consistent basis?
    for what it's worth - in ballet class we were advised that boys who work for high arabesques will hurt their ability to jump higher and rotate doubles. (Triples in ballet are considered folk dancing.)

    I'm sure there are exceptions but maybe there is something in skating about the flexibility and the jumping ability.

    Joe

    Joe

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by antmanb
    But the rules were different when Michelle competed to now. Emily, indeed no one, could ever do what Michelle (or Tara, Sarah, or Oksana etc etc) did because they cannot enter senior championships until they're 16.

    Ant
    Many skaters have made it to Senior Nationals at an early age (BeBe Liang finished in the top 6 at Nationals when she was 12), even if they couldn't compete internationally as Seniors. Emily finished 11th as a Junior at Nationals in 2002 and 2003, too low to be assigned to international junior events. She failed to make it out of Sectionals in 2004, then finally made it back to Nationals as a Senior in 2005.

    At the age when BeBe Liang, Kimmie and Katy were competing in the JGP and Junior Worlds, Emily wasn't successful enough to get assignments. She has the least competitive experience of all the younger high-ranked US skaters.

  6. #66
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    I don´t know whether Emily will be a consistent or inconsistent skater, too early to tell. If I´m thinking of the time I have watched figure skating, generally I would say that I have always prefered and enjoyed to watch inconsistent skaters over many so-called consistent skaters with lots of titles.

    Sasha may have a fall in her programme, but that does not prevent me from really loving to watch her skating. Besides, as an inconsistent skater she still has won many medals. Not Olympic or World gold, but I never expected her to win the gold at the Olympics (although I hoped it). So what, neither has Kwan won the Olympic gold, and she is the one that is so much hyped for her consistency.

    I I´m comparing Meissner and E. Hughes, the skating style of Huges pleases my eye more. Somehow Meissner looks more juniorish to me.
    Last edited by Jaana; 03-30-2006 at 04:08 AM.

  7. #67
    Custom Title antmanb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by euterpe
    Many skaters have made it to Senior Nationals at an early age (BeBe Liang finished in the top 6 at Nationals when she was 12), even if they couldn't compete internationally as Seniors. Emily finished 11th as a Junior at Nationals in 2002 and 2003, too low to be assigned to international junior events. She failed to make it out of Sectionals in 2004, then finally made it back to Nationals as a Senior in 2005.

    At the age when BeBe Liang, Kimmie and Katy were competing in the JGP and Junior Worlds, Emily wasn't successful enough to get assignments. She has the least competitive experience of all the younger high-ranked US skaters.
    The only point i was making was in relation to someone saying that by the time Michelle was Emily's age she'd already won a bunch of senior titles, the only point i was making was that might not be a good comparison in the future because of the change in age rules. I wasn't disputing anyone's competitive history.

    Ant

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    NO WAY is Emily the next Sasha. Emily will be lucky to make top-10 at US Sr Nationals next year, I bet. She doesn't have the natural physique (natural reed-thin slenderness, possessed by Kimmie & Sasha & Mao & Yu-Na Kim...and...and....) or raw talent to maintain this level beyond one or two years. By the time she is 18, her womanly curves will be even more prominent than they are now. Emily has punch-em-in-the-face guts and desire. So do 10,000 other young female skaters in the United States.

    Sorry - no cigar.

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frau Muller
    NO WAY is Emily the next Sasha. Emily will be lucky to make top-10 at US Sr Nationals next year, I bet. She doesn't have the natural physique (natural reed-thin slenderness, possessed by Kimmie & Sasha & Mao & Yu-Na Kim...and...and....) or raw talent to maintain this level beyond one or two years. By the time she is 18, her womanly curves will be even more prominent than they are now. Emily has punch-em-in-the-face guts and desire. So do 10,000 other young female skaters in the United States.

    Sorry - no cigar.
    I have to agree.

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    I think my answer to what the original poster asked is no, Emily is not the next Sasha in the respect to the falls/mistakes/mental lapses that occur in Sasha's programs. I haven't seen Emily skate clean, yet, but I don't think her falls are similar to Sasha's mess-ups. Emily seems inexperienced and a bit too eager, like she gets ahead of hweself at times, while Sasha seems to to lack focus and stamina. I also think Emily's jump technique is better, deeper edges, an actual lutz, and more height in the jump itself. Sasha seems weaker to me, and maybe that's why she falls, not a mental thing, I don't know. I think along these lines, Alissa is more "Sasha like" than Emily. Alissa has weak techniques and needs help with her jumps, badly. She also doesn't seem to have the stomach for competition. I also think that Emily will become more consistent and a good competitor like her sister was with time.


    I also agree that Emily is not the next Sasha in respect to the influence and impact that Sasha has had on Ladies figure skating.
    Last edited by MKFSfan; 03-30-2006 at 02:56 PM.

  11. #71
    Keeper of Bab's Death Stare... nubka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MKFSfan
    I think my answer to what the original poster asked is no, Emily is not the next Sasha in the respect to the falls/mistakes/mental lapses that occur in Sasha's programs. I haven't seen Emily skate clean, yet, but I don't think her falls are similar to Sasha's mess-ups. Emily seems inexperienced and a bit too eager, like she gets ahead of hweself at times, while Sasha seems to to lack focus and stamina. I also think Emily's jump technique is better, deeper edges, an actual lutz, and more height in the jump itself. Sasha seems weaker to me, and maybe that's why she falls, not a mental thing, I don't know. I think along these lines, Alissa is more "Sasha like" than Emily. Alissa has weak techniques and needs help with her jumps, badly. She also doesn't seem to have the stomach for competition. I also think that Emily will become more consistent and a good competitor like her sister was with time.

    I also agree that Emily is not the next Sasha in respect to the influence and impact that Sasha has had on Ladies figure skating.

    Thank you!! Finally, someone responds to my original question (about falling NOT "style".)

    I enjoy Emily's skating, and hope that next season she will be able to nail all her jumps...Go, Emily !!

  12. #72
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    I believe that Sasha's hyperflexibility does interfere with her ability to land jumps, as well as contribute to faulty edging. Her body "snaps" into an extended position, then has to "snap" back out to land the jump. It seems snapping into position is easier than working out of it. When she is in spiral position, in order to maintain her hyperflexed position, her edges are shallow verging on the flat, and that's one of the reasons why she can't travel very far and she slows up a lot. The multiple change of spiral positions to reach level4 actually camouflages her lack of deep edging and distance traveled, but can't conceal the fact she doesn't get much speed.

    For the most part, Emily's jumps are much more consistent than Sasha's, but otherwise, Emily is nothing at all like Sasha. To me, Emily looks uncontrolled and sometimes downright clumsy, with much too much arm waving, while Sasha is graceful even when she is falling or saving a jump, and her arm movements are natural and uncontrived.
    Last edited by euterpe; 04-02-2006 at 01:09 AM.

  13. #73
    Custom Title antmanb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nubka
    Thank you!! Finally, someone responds to my original question (about falling NOT "style".)

    I enjoy Emily's skating, and hope that next season she will be able to nail all her jumps...Go, Emily !!
    Several people answered your question about jumping consistency, including myself, i had taken your lack of response to be you trolling and just trying to be mean about Emily. Apparently i was wrong.

    Ant

  14. #74
    Keeper of Bab's Death Stare... nubka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by antmanb
    Several people answered your question about jumping consistency, including myself, i had taken your lack of response to be you trolling and just trying to be mean about Emily. Apparently i was wrong.

    Ant
    Nope, I'm not at all a troll...never judge a book by it's cover! I really DO like Emily's skating (as I DID mention in my first post) and I hope she will be around for a long time to come (and landing those jumps!) Even though she has a long way to go, I much prefer her skating to Kimmie's.

    Actually, most folks, at first, didn't anwser my question about Emily's recent inability to land all her jumps in her LP. Instead, I was reminded repeatedly, that this was Emily's fist year at senior levels, and to not judge her or put expections on her, etc. Either that or I got a semi-lecture on how Emily is no where near Sasha's style (like I didn't already know that...duh!!) Also, many discussions about her weight, ect. (which I did not bring up.)

    Looking back, I should have made to the title to this thread more clear, but I assumed that if people really read my post they would understand that I was talking about the ability to skate two clean programs, or at least get through the LP without any falls. I didn't try to compare Emily's "style" with Sasha's. Only pointing out that lately, neither of them seem to be able to get through their LP's without falling...

    Apparently, I should have made the title of this thread more clear.

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    I find Emily's skating to be refreshing and enjoyable just for it's only qualities. I am thrilled that she can do a correct triple Lutz and a Triple Flip. I like her spirit on the ice. She doesn't pose and emote herself into knots. She has great presence and draws the eyes to her. Her ability to cope through the uncertainty around the Olympics showed maturity beyond her years. I think she's delightful.

    I dislike labeling skaters, although it is human nature to want to put things into easy to understand categories. But, to answer the question, is Emily going to be another Sasha? I hope not. We have an incredibly beautiful Sasha and don't need another. We also already have a great Michelle and Kimmie. We definitely are in need of an Emily. In other words, be patient and watch the kid grow. It's going to be fun seeing what she does with her gift.

    Will she fall, yes. Will she skate clean, yes. Will she get better, certainly. Don't miss out on the process by always focusing on results! You are going to miss out on the best part if you are too quick to label and dismiss talented skaters.
    Last edited by SusanBeth; 04-02-2006 at 09:18 PM.

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