Ladies Finals: Am I the only one who....

Mathman said:

Yelyoh, Dee was being sarcastic, making fun of the very first post on this thread by giving Frau M a taste of her own medicine, LOL.

Dee does not think that these ladies -- or anyone else -- is arrogant, etc.

MM

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Thanks Math, I'm glad you got it. You're right I really don't try to say things about the skaters.

Dee

can anyone give me the link to that photo where Sasha is giving a hug to Kimmie?

anything_for_skating said:

can anyone give me the link to that photo where Sasha is giving a hug to Kimmie?

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http://us.news3.yimg.com/us.i2.yimg....jpg?x=210&y=345&sig=PbEmqPNt1C_tHjRRSHsPjQ--

yelyoh said:

:disapp: :disapp: :disapp: :disapp: :disapp: :disapp:

Joannie, Fumie, Kimmie arrogant????????? Can you provide any examples???

I was not happy Sasha was beaten by Kimmie. But Sasha did herself in. What can one say. Same old, same old.

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No!!!! Dee wasn't saying it and meaning it she was turnign around what Frau had said to see how it made her feel...trying to hold up a mirror to see what the reasction is. The mistake Dee made was trying to reason with someone who was delibrately being mean about a skater...those people can never be reasoned with...try as i have in the past!

Ant

flying camel said:

I wasn't happy that she beat Sasha, but I was happy that she skated so well.

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Ditto. Though I like both skaters, I have more invested in Sasha simply because I've watched her skate--and struggle--longer. Sasha has worked long and hard, as they all do to get to this level, but she had what no other skater I've ever seen has had: A phyisical beauty and emotional depth on the ice that made her skating sublime when she skated well, especially seeing it live, and heartbreaking when she collided more with herself than with the ice, IMO, which is what I thought happened at these Worlds. It was the worst I'd seen her skate since fall '01, if not worse because in Calgary she put all her energy into both her SP and LP despite seeming to having nothing left but pain and exhaustion--physical, mental, and emotional.

I was happy for Kimmie that she won, but I was not happy because she beat Sasha, who had skated through at least four years of media "hellfire and damnation" and, probably worst, what must have been her own heartbreaking frustration, only to have it all, for whatever reasons, fall apart when she needed it most.

Of course people hate athletes, as is their right, and I'm sure it's not news to anybody in figure skating that life is competition and life isn't fair. Still, even with skaters I haven't liked, I've never been "happy" to see their dreams smashed when they were lucky enough to be born with great talent, had the work ethic to put in every ounce of their energy into training and competition, had the intelligence to try to balance difficult training without over training (even though I think she did overtrain this season), tried to make the right decisions, and come to the final and most important competions of a four-year cycle only to find that silver or bronze is as good as nothing at all.

But neither was I "happy" when Michelle's 3-time quest for the OGM ended up with a worse outcome every time she tried.

Also, I'm never "happy" with an event when so many great skaters perform so badly. I don't begrudge Kimmie a thing, she earned that World gold. But she has many years to earn more. For Sasha, it's all over on that account, IMO, as it is for other deserving skaters. But because the thread is about Cohen, for me, the sadness of her failure outweighed my happiness for Kimmie. However, I like Kimmie's skating as much as I liked Cohen's in '02, am indeed happy for her, and look forward to her watching her progress.

BTW, it struck me the other day that Sasha is the only "baby ballerina" skater from 2000 who didn't drop out, get injured out, or realize she just wouldn't be able to keep up. Sasha was the only "2000 baby ballerina" skater left standing. She's also the only US skater who went through the NJS throughout all its changes and manifestations by doing the GPS and every other ISU event except the year her back was injured. But you don't get anything for that, nor do I think Cohen would want to. She was working towards goals and she didn't make it.

Anyway, Kimmie would have been over the moon with a silver or bronze, as would the press--had Sasha skated well. The only medal Sasha could win without being crushed was gold. For me, unless I know the athlete is on anabolic steroids or beats up small animals or children, I get no joy out of watching her dreams turn to dust. Same goes for skaters such as Angela Nikodinov, Jenny Kirk, Irina, and others. I do, however, look forward to being "over the moon" myself for Kimmie in the future when all the top ladies skate well.

The topic of this thread and so many of its posts is so typical of GS.

Rgirl

Yeah, you've said much of what I think and turned it into an essay (not for the first time, either ). Good for the teenager for winning, and it'll be up to her next year to maintain that roll and defend her title. Will she do it? That should be the title of the next Off-Season Debate.

RD - I think it was a sad skate for Sasha and most people felt for her. I certainly did. But one has to remember that it's not next year. It's THAT NIGHT when skaters are judged. No one has argued that Kimmie should not have won. Maybe a little thought should go to Fumie, whom I thought was brilliant THAT NIGHT.

The defence of Sasha is justified when posters are debasing her abilities. Not nice, and definitely not necessary. She is a remarkable skater.

Joe

I think most of us understand that it's what happens that night that counts. That's why I was saying that now that Kimmie has won the world title, she will suddenly have pressure on her that she hasn't had before. And THAT, folks, will be the real test. But no matter what happens, she will always have this title, and maybe even the US title next year or in the future.

Cohen was not made to be a champion- simple as that. Yes, I think going on and on about how much she sucks for not winning in a weak field is not a good thing, but it's not a bash IMO to say things like competition is not for her or she should find something else to do that makes her happy.

Red Dog said:

... That's why I was saying that now that Kimmie has won the world title, she will suddenly have pressure on her that she hasn't had before. And THAT, folks, will be the real test. But no matter what happens, she will always have this title, and maybe even the US title next year or in the future.
...

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Why will the next year be so heavy a test? It is not uncommon for skaters to have ups-and-downs -- think Irina (even though healthy, she didn't make podium in '97; didn't even make team in '99) or Chen Lu (from 27th place in '97 to Oly bronze the next year). IIRC, Shizuka didn't do all that well last year.

Yes, there are up and down periods. But I always think the true test of a real champion is being able to take that type of performance and become even stronger. Irina did that, MK did that, S. Hughes did NOT do that. There were setbacks in the process, but eventually MK and IS were able to bounce back and top their previous bests.

Joesitz said:

The defence of Sasha is justified when posters are debasing her abilities. Not nice, and definitely not necessary. She is a remarkable skater.
Joe

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As I said before what are we accomplishing by being mean to Sasha. I think people who have made their mean snide remarks about doing happy dances because Sasha lost are not true figure skating fans. You don't have to like Sasha and that's OK --- the snide and mean spirited remarks are not. As a figure skating fan, I think to have very constructive criticism is wanted. My constructive criticism is if Sasha stays competitive I hope she has someone help her with the technical part of her skating.

Dee

Dee4707 said:

As I said before what are we accomplishing by being mean to Sasha. I think people who have made their mean snide remarks about doing happy dances because Sasha lost are not true figure skating fans. You don't have to like Sasha and that's OK --- the snide and mean spirited remarks are not. As a figure skating fan, I think to have very constructive criticism is wanted. My constructive criticism is if Sasha stays competitive I hope she has someone help her with the technical part of her skating.

Dee

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Agree partially but COME ON- not a real fan because they are happy Sasha lost?!! This reminds me of those Kwanfans who think that just because one doesn't post favorable about Kwan, he/she is a hater and not a true fan! I'm sorry but this strikes a chord in me... Now, this is not to say I agree with those posting these remarks- I don't- but posting it once or twice IMO isn't bad- it's just expressing a feeling they had. I have no problem at all saying I really didn't want her to win (although I didn't quite bank on her performing the worst FS of her career). It's when a poster says it REPEATEDLY in multiple threads that I say are mean-spirited. I suppose it depends on how the comment is phrased as well...But if you are a fan of one skater it shouldn't be much of an issue if you cheer when the skater's competitors falter. It's not PC, such comments are typically frowned upon but but absolutely horrendous (when said the first time anyway). But then again, I'm one to really say what I think, so...

but, that aside, I do agree that constructive criticism accomplishes more in terms of debate then either outright praise or outright bashing. I don't hold it against certain posters who are happy she fell. But there's only ONE poster I can think of here who, IMO, is TRULY mean-spirited and relentlessly bashes Sasha in almost every post I see of this poster. Not naming any names, JMO

Red Dog said:

Agree partially but COME ON- not a real fan

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Red Dog, I mean in general a fan of figure skating not any particular skater. I think if you're a figure skating fan then you are all for all the skaters because you know what they have to go through to be a competitive skater. To me a true figure skating fan does not wish someone to fall or to have a total melt down just so their skater will win and to say I hope Skater A doesn't win, that's just mean. Where's the sportmanship in that? I think all the skaters deserve some respect.

Dee

Dee4707 said:

Red Dog, I mean in general a fan of figure skating not any particular skater. I think if you're a figure skating fan then you are all for all the skaters because you know what they have to go through to be a competitive skater. To me a true figure skating fan does not wish someone to fall or to have a total melt down just so their skater will win and to say I hope Skater A doesn't win, that's just mean. Where's the sportmanship in that? I think all the skaters deserve some respect.

Dee

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I agree. I am a major fan of figure skating, rather than a major fan of figure skaters. I want to see great skating from anyone and everyone. Sure, I prefer some skaters to others, but I don't want to see anyone lose. I want to see someone WIN. The best competitions are the ones in which a real battle takes place. Examples of that would be Lambiel vs Joubert, Lu Chen vs Kwan, Boitano vs Orser etc. Who can really claim to be a big fan of figure skating and pray to see bad skating?

SusanBeth said:

I agree. I am a major fan of figure skating, rather than a major fan of figure skaters. I want to see great skating from anyone and everyone. Sure, I prefer some skaters to others, but I don't want to see anyone lose. I want to see someone WIN. The best competitions are the ones in which a real battle takes place. Examples of that would be Lambiel vs Joubert, Lu Chen vs Kwan, Boitano vs Orser etc. Who can really claim to be a big fan of figure skating and pray to see bad skating?

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Answer: posters who talk about doing happy dances and other things they won't mention "to be polite" when watching Sasha fall, and then turn around and ask, disingenuously, why they should be called haters for rooting for Kimmie. Sigh. Sad state of affairs. And great posts, Doggygirl, kyla2, Rgirl, Dee, Joe, and others putting down this nonsense.

Off to threads started in a more positive spirit...

Sarah m.

SusanBeth said:

I agree. I am a major fan of figure skating, rather than a major fan of figure skaters. I want to see great skating from anyone and everyone. Sure, I prefer some skaters to others, but I don't want to see anyone lose. I want to see someone WIN. The best competitions are the ones in which a real battle takes place. Examples of that would be Lambiel vs Joubert, Lu Chen vs Kwan, Boitano vs Orser etc. Who can really claim to be a big fan of figure skating and pray to see bad skating?

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Well said SusanBeth. Since these competitions have been Kwanless, I can sit back and enjoy the competitions. I do have feelings for the skaters who did not do well, as expected. At the same time, though, I enjoyed the winners and am happy that a new rivalry has started in the Men's Division. Maybe in Dance, and in Pairs, too. We must look for other comps to properly judge Kimmie, imo.

I think the future will have exciting seasons.

Joe

I don't think the posters want bad SKATING necessarily. They just want one skater to not win. Some may or may not care if the skater falls multiple times or looks devastated afterwards. The difference is those truly celebrating Kimmie's win, and those celebrating Cohen's loss. JMO

Red Dog said:

I don't think the posters want bad SKATING necessarily. They just want one skater to not win. Some may or may not care if the skater falls multiple times or looks devastated afterwards. The difference is those truly celebrating Kimmie's win, and those celebrating Cohen's loss. JMO

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In other words, they want to see someone lose. The missed chance of seeing a gifted skater perform her best doesn't matter. They didn't want to see that. Therefore, good skating doesn't matter to them.

maybe, but well, on the other hand, they may be cheering for someone to lose so that their favorite can win. It doesn't mean they don't like any other skaters. That's why I don't get this way of thinking.

Besides, not everyone likes Cohen or thinks she's so great. To these people, she's probably just another boring/fake skater and they can't wait to see her go down in flames. IMO, they got their wish.

Grudge holding could also play a big factor since comments she made earlier (and even now) make many people believe she's a spoiled princess.