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Thread: Praising Kimmie

  1. #16
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    I feel like some of the negative reactions to Kimmie's win have been a little extreme.

    For those who feel that Kimmie is completely amateurish and juniorish in her presentation, and therefore undeserving of high artistic scores . . . well, I can understand the point, but at the same time, I think it's not giving Kimmie enough credit. I would almost argue that rather than being overmarked at Worlds, perhaps she was slightly undermarked before.

    There are actually a lot of great presentation aspects to Kimmie's skating:

    1. Her choreography is quite good and compares favorably with that of many older skaters, such as Sokolova and Liashenko.

    2. Her speed and flow across the ice are very good. I saw her skate live this year and was very impressed with this aspect of her skating. She really just flew across the ice. She has more speed and flow than many older, better-known skaters.

    3. The quality of her posture and body line is definitely nowhere near Sasha's or Michelle's. But she still, overall, has quite good posture and line. Again, she really compares favorably here with many older skaters, such as Slutskaya, Sokolova, or even Kostner or Suguri. Irina is not at all known for her elegance of line or posture; neither is Sokolova.

    To me, Kimmie's biggest presentation weakness is in the performance component. She doesn't yet have the musicality, phrasing, and audience rapport that older, more polished skaters such as Michelle and Sasha do.

    But I do think when you look at the overall package of Kimmie's presentation, there's a lot to appreciate. Although she's young, I find her performances aesthestically pleasing and enjoyable to watch.

    I personally was very happy to see her win. I feel like she's a much-needed breath of fresh air in ladies' skating. She is a great skater and seems like a nice young woman as well. Her youthful enthusiasm makes her a lot of fun.

  2. #17
    Custom Title antmanb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eyria
    I feel like some of the negative reactions to Kimmie's win have been a little extreme.

    For those who feel that Kimmie is completely amateurish and juniorish in her presentation, and therefore undeserving of high artistic scores . . . well, I can understand the point, but at the same time, I think it's not giving Kimmie enough credit. I would almost argue that rather than being overmarked at Worlds, perhaps she was slightly undermarked before.

    There are actually a lot of great presentation aspects to Kimmie's skating:

    1. Her choreography is quite good and compares favorably with that of many older skaters, such as Sokolova and Liashenko.

    2. Her speed and flow across the ice are very good. I saw her skate live this year and was very impressed with this aspect of her skating. She really just flew across the ice. She has more speed and flow than many older, better-known skaters.

    3. The quality of her posture and body line is definitely nowhere near Sasha's or Michelle's. But she still, overall, has quite good posture and line. Again, she really compares favorably here with many older skaters, such as Slutskaya, Sokolova, or even Kostner or Suguri. Irina is not at all known for her elegance of line or posture; neither is Sokolova.

    To me, Kimmie's biggest presentation weakness is in the performance component. She doesn't yet have the musicality, phrasing, and audience rapport that older, more polished skaters such as Michelle and Sasha do.

    But I do think when you look at the overall package of Kimmie's presentation, there's a lot to appreciate. Although she's young, I find her performances aesthestically pleasing and enjoyable to watch.

    I personally was very happy to see her win. I feel like she's a much-needed breath of fresh air in ladies' skating. She is a great skater and seems like a nice young woman as well. Her youthful enthusiasm makes her a lot of fun.
    Don't get me wrong i totally think Kimmie deserved the win and i'm not questioning her talent or her ability...more than anything i was commenting on how the judges just aren't marking the PCS, they just track the PCS.

    Bringing Irina and Sokolova up is intersting because they are two skaters who i think have benefitted from PCS or presnetation marks tracking the technical. Irina's PCS marks in this past season have been a total joke with marks in the 8s.

    The thing to remember about Kimmie is that she is very young and at the start of her career. The most difficult thing in this sport is laying down that 7 triple program, if you have the talent, ability and competitive nerve to do that then you can work hard at the artistic side and i have no doubt that Kimmie will work on this aspect for the future...she's sure to be getting a four year plan in place to get her to Vancouver and i'm sure improving aritstically is high on the plan.

    Ant

  3. #18
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    I appreciate the creation of this thread, I might have been the one to create it myself if no one else had. A few observations about some of the posts here:

    - Personally I enjoy seeing a early or middle teen "skating her age". Rather than looking "like a junior skater", no, she looks like a 16-year-old Senior skater.
    No, I don't want her to skate like a 20-year-old belly dancer the way they tried to make Michelle look at 16.

    - I thought the "Queen of Sheba" music was fine except for that "snake charmer" segment - you know, that "Bomba-bom-bom-bom tweedle-deedle-dee-dee-dee" and so-forth - Ugh!! But the rest of the music sounded fairly mature, though not TOO mature for a 16-year-old power skater - and that beautiful, long, brassy chord at the very end of the program spoke of POWER!!

    - Those of you who don't think she is capable of lovely, lyrical movement might have missed her short and long programs at Nationals 2005 - the short was to a piece by Debussy, the DEAN of soft, poetic music - and the long was to Daphnis&Chloe, a LOVELY montage of "hummingbird music" - remember Dick Button at that time saying "She skates like a hummingbird, with quick, clean movements and suspended in mid-air !" ??

    - But Kimmie herself was quoted as saying this season was about learning the
    new system and about establishing an "athletic plateau" that would impress the judges to set her up for future seasons. I would suggest that those of you who didn't watch her 2005 Nationals programs, go back and watch them if you think you have them recorded. I think under the new system, her PCS scores for her 2005 long program in particular would have been very high.

  4. #19
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    Kimmie's a great skater. But I think her fanbase is significantly lower than, say, Cohen's or Kwan's. This is understanable given that she hasn't been in the senior limelight for too long, but unfortunately for her I think many people admire her guts but can't quite dig her skating enough to be a FAN.

  5. #20
    Keeper of La Khok's Tutus Doggygirl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Red Dog
    Kimmie's a great skater. But I think her fanbase is significantly lower than, say, Cohen's or Kwan's. This is understanable given that she hasn't been in the senior limelight for too long, but unfortunately for her I think many people admire her guts but can't quite dig her skating enough to be a FAN.
    I admire her guts, and I'm a fan. (of KimmyKitty!!!!!) I'm also a major Cohen fan and also a Kwan fan. And an FS Fan Big Time!! My only speculation on next season for US Ladies is that we will probably hear something from Cohen about her plans, and little to nothing from Kwan and her plans. That's all OK by me - their choice. I'm really curious about Stephanie Rosenthal's plans!! There is a part of me that thinks a different country should "adopt" her (in my imagination - not necessarily my legal / political opinion). On the other hand, I hope to watch her SP and LP again, and it might be worth the price of an all event ticket to do it. (jeez - did I just say that?? West Coast here i come?? HEY - i LOVE the West Coast!!...decisions decisions....)

    DG

  6. #21
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    I'm not really worried about her "fan-base". I'm sure that will significantly increase from her most recent performances and on-camera exposure. A skater need not be from California or New York to be nationally popular.

    Jill Trenary was from a small town in Minnesota and had a shining reputation among those who actually met her in person. Kimmie is gaining that reputation with the press and with people who meet her. Many skaters gain popularity that way regardless of what people perceive in her skating style itself. Quite often a skater's "personna reputation" will spill over to the spectators and TV viewers.

    Those of us who saw her skate her Debussy and Ravel programs at 2005 Nationals know that she can skate softly and lyrically but we also know that under the new scoring system she had to first establish herself as a major power skater. Having done that in spectacular fashion, she can now work on blending more of what we saw in 2005 into a new program that will be a "vegetable soup" of both powerful and lovely elements.

    I don't necessarily expect ANYTHING she does to bring you around to enjoying her skating, Red Dog, but to each his own.............

  7. #22
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jsteam4501s
    ... the "Queen of Sheba" music was fine except for that "snake charmer" segment - you know, that "Bomba-bom-bom-bom tweedle-deedle-dee-dee-dee" and so-forth ...
    What was Lori Nichol thinking of? Oh well, it gave her a chance to throw in those "walk like an Egyptian" moves, LOL.

    As far as PCS, I was most impressed by her exhibition skate. With fewer jumps she was able to concentrate more on her extention and finishing off her movements, especially her arms. I think she's on her way!

    Gimmie Kimmie.

    MM
    Last edited by Mathman; 04-02-2006 at 09:10 AM.

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by jsteam4501s
    I'm not really worried about her "fan-base". I'm sure that will significantly increase from her most recent performances and on-camera exposure. A skater need not be from California or New York to be nationally popular.

    Jill Trenary was from a small town in Minnesota and had a shining reputation among those who actually met her in person. Kimmie is gaining that reputation with the press and with people who meet her. Many skaters gain popularity that way regardless of what people perceive in her skating style itself. Quite often a skater's "personna reputation" will spill over to the spectators and TV viewers.

    Those of us who saw her skate her Debussy and Ravel programs at 2005 Nationals know that she can skate softly and lyrically but we also know that under the new scoring system she had to first establish herself as a major power skater. Having done that in spectacular fashion, she can now work on blending more of what we saw in 2005 into a new program that will be a "vegetable soup" of both powerful and lovely elements.

    I don't necessarily expect ANYTHING she does to bring you around to enjoying her skating, Red Dog, but to each his own.............
    ITA, Jsteam, with both your posts on this page. I too saw Kimmie skate live last spring. Prior to that I my feelings about her skating were "com si, com sa"--but I'd only seen her a few times on TV. Seeing her skate live totally made me sit up and take notice. Live, I found her skating to look much more sophisticated than it does on TV. I think on TV you don't get the way her body relates to the space around her. Kimmie owns her space, which is a subtle concept to envision, but when you see it, the power is unmistakable. Great observations,,,,obviously, because I agree with them, LOL. Seriously, I love your insights.

    ****************
    Mathman,
    You asked me about Kimmie's exhib skate at Worlds and wouldn't it be great if she skated like that all the time. Well, not in my opinion. Don't get me wrong, I thought Kimmie was gorgeous and the choreography was lovely. But a snoozer ballad version of "Over the Rainbow"--not for me, though I'm sure most people loved it. When I saw it a second time, I thought, "Why didn't 16-year-old Kimmie Meissner skate to 16-year-old Judy Garland's version?" I'm sure I'm in the minority, but I say go with the classic.

    Kimmie herself was smooth, delicate, and sweet, just like the music. But ALL the time? Zzzzz. Nothing against Kimmie in that style, I just also enjoy seeing her skate in power mode, much of which we saw in her LP, despite the blah choreography.

    Jsteam, just like Kat Witt, is right. If you've got the technique and the nerves to compete a clean SP and LP, the latter with 7 triples, then the artistic side can be taught, at least far more easily than the other way around. I just would like to see her continue to develop more than one style. She's an inexperienced natural at both lyricism and power. I say, how great would it be to see both in one program.

    Besides, for me, the way someone skates and exhibition vs. a competition involves a whole different level of adrenaline. I'd miss that adrenaline in competition.

    Let's just hope her hormones continue to be kind to Kimmie.

    In the meantime, I highly recommend seeing Kimmie skate live with COI or next season in one of her competitions. I think she's worth it.

    Rgirl

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman
    Wouldn't that have been something? I wonder how it would have been scored against Arakawa's beautiful and mature, but technically unexceptional, skate.
    If Kimmie had landed the 3-3 combinations, chances are Arakawa would have included hers too. When Shizuka took the ice, the most important thing for her was to skate clean. She would have received higher PCS than Kimmie regardless.

    Vash

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rgirl
    "Why didn't 16-year-old Kimmie Meissner skate to 16-year-old Judy Garland's version?"
    Because that would have been so beautiful that our hearts would not have been able to bear it.

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vash01
    If Kimmie had landed the 3-3 combinations, chances are Arakawa would have included hers too. When Shizuka took the ice, the most important thing for her was to skate clean. She would have received higher PCS than Kimmie regardless.Vash
    ITA Vash - Shiz is a very seasoned skater and Kimmie is just becoming one.

    However, Kimmie Meissner won the Worlds Championship 2006!! over and out.

    Joe

  12. #27
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    Shiz is a very seasoned skater and Kimmie is just becoming one.

    However, Kimmie Meissner won the Worlds Championship 2006!! over and out.
    That's a good way to sum up the season.

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vash01
    If Kimmie had landed the 3-3 combinations, chances are Arakawa would have included hers too. Vash
    Vash01, just a little reminder - Arakawa skated before Kimmie.

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by jsteam4501s
    Vash01, just a little reminder - Arakawa skated before Kimmie.
    That's why woulda, shoulda, coulda arguments are pretty pointless if the threat of kimmie landing the 3/3s was big enough and a threat (ie if kimmie had been higher after the SP and laying down the calgary performance in practices) then maybe arakawa would have chosen to include at least one 3/3...all we know is what happened. Its as pointless as saying actually if Michelle had gone she'd have won.

    In reality - the Olympic pressure got to kimmie as much as it did to everyone else and she didn't skate her best program. Kwan was injured and could not skate...end of.

    Ant

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by antmanb
    In reality - the Olympic pressure got to kimmie as much as it did to everyone else and she didn't skate her best program. Kwan was injured and could not skate...end of.Ant
    There is a difference between 'pressure' and 'nerves'. Jose Chouinard had a problem with nerves not pressure.

    2002 Olys had several Lady skaters with pressure (Kwan and Slutskaya for the OGM and Sasha for a Tara repeat. Less pressure and nerves was Hughes - nothing to lose.

    Even with pressure of defening his title, Lambiel for example, had to skate after a super skate of Joubert who had no pressure or nerves since he was already written off as a loser (seems the N.American boys were the tops at that time).

    Back to Lambiel, he used the pressure to make him skate clean. Pressure is a two way street. One will skate poorly (Chouinard) or better (Lambiel).

    Joe

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