Flip Matrix

Is a flip required to take off from a particular foot, or do you just have to land with the opposite?

You have to land on the opposite. The footing depends on whether you're a counter-clockwise skater or a clockwise one. Counter-clockwise skaters take off from the left foot and land with the right, and vice versa for clockwise skaters.

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Hmmm, flips as in the ice skating jump, you take off on your right or left foot, and land on the same foot as you took off on.

In a flip you land on the same foot as you picked with. I sense that's where we're getting much of the confusion!

With the flip it is first done with a left outside 3 turn, pick with the right toe pick and land on the right leg.

Truly am sorry about this, I was thinking of the Lutz.

So it doesn't matter which foot, just the opposite?

Sorry, I must have made everyone confused. My "take off foot" I meant the foot where the whole blade was on the ice, so if you're a counter-clockwise skater, the left foot is in front while you pick with the right

And I'm pretty sure it's opposite for opposite skaters. The lutz is similar except the skate of the "foot in the front" is on an outside edge, whereas in flips, it's a slight inside edge. And I have no idea how to do a backflip

seanibu said:

Truly am sorry about this, I was thinking of the Lutz.

So it doesn't matter which foot, just the opposite?

Click to expand...

Are you a counter-clockwise skater? Meaning, is that the direction you rotate when you do jumps and spins? If so:

For a flip, you are on the left backwards inside edge, you pick the ice with your right foot, and after rotating once in the air you land on your right backwards outside edge.

For a lutz, the only difference is the edge (outside or inside). You are on the left backwards OUTSIDE edge, pick with the right foot behind your skating foot, and after rotating once in the air, land on your right backwards outside edge.

All the main rotational jumps are landed in the same way (the exceptions are some jumps where you do the splits in the air, for example). (If you rotate clockwise, just reverse the left/right instructions.)

Just FYI, because the edge you enter the jump on is the only technical difference between the two jumps, sometimes what is intended to be one becomes the other. E.g. a skater might be attempting a lutz, but instead of remaining on an outside edge up until take-off they may quickly change to an inside edge, making it technically a flip, which is easier (and in international skating, is simply considered bad technique on a lutz or "cheating"). This is known as a flutz (adding the f onto the word lutz) and skaters should get penalised for it under the rules.

Well I have been aware of my flutzing, and I am a counterclockwise. And this thread has been confusing for me so I started looking (no coach) around for a clear understanding of why I am confused and why I am not asking a question that is clear. Hence I discover I am a moron for even asking and the question has been answered in the posts.

A Lutz I believe, is taking off from a back outside edge, landing on the back outside edge of the opposite foot. I was asking if it matters which foot and of course it does. As you have nicely been trying to put it "what foot are you taking off with?" "Which way do you spin?"

So I asked a dumb question, unless of course I am incorrect with the definition of a Lutz. Please correct me if I am wrong again.

I don't think it was a dumb question, I think there's some general confusion on the whole "opposite foot"/"takeoff foot" thing. Is the 'takeoff foot' the one that's on the ice, or the one that's picking in?

The way *I* would describe it is, for a lutz, you pick in with and land on the same foot. In my case, I would pick in with and land on my left foot. (Assuming I could jump. There's no actual reason I don't, except I have limited lesson time so we focus on things related to MiF and dance, meaning spins yes, jumps no.) When I consider jumps, I tend to think of everything in relation to the landing leg. So on a lutz and a flip, I'm thinking that I would pick with and land on the same foot. I suppose that would mean you take off from one foot and land on the other. That's just not the way I personally think about it.

As for the flutzing, wish I could help, but honestly to my way of thinking/body mechanics it's the flip whose takeoff seems bizzare, but then I have a much harder time gliding backwards on an inside edge than an outside. Just the way my ankles work.

Oh do I agree with that, it is so hard "gliding" on an inside foot. I think the definition is becoming more confusing then pulling a "jump spin" and all my friends say "wow" how do you handle the pain of falling on your........