View Poll Results: Best women jumper of all time?

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  • Midori Ito

    137 56.85%
  • Tonya Harding

    13 5.39%
  • Irina Slutskaya

    22 9.13%
  • Mao Asada

    24 9.96%
  • Surya Bonaly

    7 2.90%
  • Miki Ando

    6 2.49%
  • Petra Burka

    0 0%
  • Tara Lipinski

    9 3.73%
  • Denise Biellman

    4 1.66%
  • other

    19 7.88%
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Thread: Best women jumper of all time?

  1. #46
    MY TVC 1 5 SeaniBu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman
    I don't remember a triple Axel attempt by Kimmie or anyone else at the 2006 Olympics (?) According to the judges protocols, in the short Kimmie did 3Lz+3T, 3F and 2A, and in the long she did 2F+2T, 2A, 3Lz+2T, 3Lo, 3Lz, 3S, 2A+2T.

    IIRC, in the practices the ladies were doing so badly on their jumps that Arakawa's team felt it was safe to take out her planned triple-triples.
    Of course you all are so correct again, like MM would ever be wrong (not kidding AT ALL!). I am a fool again:banging: . Now either a year sence the 2005 Nats has passed when she did it and I just have no consept of time anymore or I am THINKING that she was the only one to do the 3-3s and getting that mixed up in my memory. Any way I look at it, I was confused, and am slowly learning to just keep my ""words" shut now that I am learning and conversing with FS fans that are still beyond my level of comprehension in technical discussion, well and this point, in memory.

    Thank you for putting up with me on the technical comments that I really have no business interjecting on at this point in my "education." I should just stick with artistic expression, celebrity stats, my views on lesser educated FS fans, non fans and whys, etc.. - basically because that is part of my education and most of that is just opinions or understandings of the human complexity.

    I was aware of the info about Shizuka - thank goodness I got that right for I used it as an example of her confidence on a different post. If there was a chance to beet her that would have been the only way - for she had comprised the most difficult of all the programs. Watch, I am wrong about that too, eesh!

    Sorry again for doubting you MM - please note that I did say i was confused hopefully conveying the message that I was not sure, but not to a degree that I feel necessary when expressing something that one is not sure of. Man I am F'n up all over the place, leaving words out of sentences, remembering things that didn't happen, loosing control of my temper when starting my membership, falling on a frick'n Bunny hop, blaa blaa.... I swear I will be staying in my "league" here in, and if vier please feel free to notify me that I am being idiotic again.

    I hope I am not screwing up by leaving my current job too!!!!!

  2. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tonichelle
    wasn't the only 3 axel that made news Rena and John? I don't remember a lady doing a 3a at all?
    I do belive I remember that as well, but am unsure of myself at the moment.
    No "solo lady" did from my research on the particular subject not counting on my memory alone - I will never do that again!

    Question though, Is that called a 3a or is it a "throw 3a" or something along those lines to designate it as a pairs move????????

  3. #48
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    Well, technically it should be throw triple axel, unless Rena and John have started their side by side triple axels! Though on an afterthought, that should be called side by side triple axels, not triple axels.

  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by jsteam4501s
    My apologies, however, for shortchanging the numbers for Ito and Harding. I guess what I meant to say is that Ito never again skated well in Worlds or Olympics after she won '89 Worlds, and Harding never again landed a triple axle in Worlds or Olympics after the one she hit at '91 Nationals.
    Ito never skated well again after '89, and yet, didn't she win an Oly medal in 1992?

    And Harding, as well as Ito, at some point landed a CLEAN (NOT cheated) 3axel-2 toe. Let's wait until little Kimmie tries that one....or even a clean, uncheated 3axel again at some point, before we start awarding her "best ever" awards. The child is 16 for gosh sake.

  5. #50
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    Well said Kasey.

    Harding attempted and completed a triple axel at 1991 worlds. She attempted it many times afterwards, but never landed it again in competition.

    As for Kimmie's triple axel at nationals '05, it was just wrong to say it was clean. It was DEFINITELY cheated.

    Ito landed the first and so far, the only ladie's triple axel at the '92 Games and earned a silver medal. She landed a GREAT triple axel at Japanese nationals which she won in 1996.

  6. #51
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    I did not realize Peggy called Kimmie's triple axel the best she had ever seen. I doubt she really feels that way since I saw her go beserk at a few triple axels Ito did on pro competitions she was commentating on for ABC. She is probably trying to, as somebody previously said, exagerrate something extremely impressive and rare, like a reasonably stood up triple axel, and inflate it to something more to entice viewers and enthuse their hopes for a young American up and comer.

  7. #52
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    (Sigh) You folks are still in denial about Kimmie's triple jumps. At Nationals 2005, the judges fully ratified her triple axel. Again, I will accept what both the judges AND the veteran ex-skater commentators like Peggy Fleming say over what YOU say anyday. I'm not going to believe the phrase "definitely cheated" until I hear it from a judge or commentator.

    Now, Kimmie has said that she wishes to restore the triple axel to her programs. I hope she can.

    By the way - your continuous implication that judges and/or commentators will deliberately speak of a higher quality then they are thinking just doesn't carry any weight at all. I think some of you are just using that to serve your purpose. After all, if it were TRUE, who's to say it's never been done for Irina or Midori or Tonya or Mao Asada? This fixation on "Only Kimmie gets inflated marks, only Kimmie has cheated on jumps, etc..........." is very REVEALING as to your motive or your bias , or whatever.

  8. #53
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    Is a "cheat" considered anything a 1/4 turn and smaller or the other way around?

    I thought I remembered Kimmie really having to work for the one she did in comp (1/4 turn with a heavy lean and really ran the edge out and around), but the one in practice was practically perfect.

    Yes "tinkibu" again.

  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by jsteam4501s
    My apologies, however, for shortchanging the numbers for Ito and Harding. I guess what I meant to say is that Ito never again skated well in Worlds or Olympics after she won '89 Worlds, and Harding never again landed a triple axle in Worlds or Olympics after the one she hit at '91 Nationals.
    Absolutely not true on both accounts. Ito skated great at the 1990 worlds, landing a triple axel and all the other jumps she had landed the previous year, and with better artistry. She earned three 6.0's for technical merit (the rest were 5.9's) and won the free program.The reason she did not win the title was that she was 10th in the compulsory figures. She finished in second place overall, after winning both SP and LP. She skated great at Trophy Lalique in 1991, landing a triple axel-double toe combination, and won it over Yamaguchi. She fell on the 3lutz in the SP at the Olympics but her LP skate, which included a fabulous triple axel, was good enough to earn her a silver medal. The only year she did not skate well was at the 1991 worlds when she was injured after a collision and probably should have withdrawn. At the 1992 Olympics she was the odds on favorite to win the gold. She settled for a silver, but that is hardly a sign of not skating well.

    Ito also skated great in the pro competitions. She won a pro competition in (IIRC) 1993 (beating Yamaguchi) after she skated a powerful technical program with the best triple axel I have ever seen a lady land, a 3t-3t combination, and other triples. A few years later she won the technical portion of another pro competition over Yamaguchi after a similar powerful skate, but placed second after the artistic portion.

    Harding landed a triple axel at worlds in 1991 and later that year at Skate America. I think she too landed a triple axel-double toe combination.

    Vash

  10. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by jsteam4501s
    (Sigh) You folks are still in denial about Kimmie's triple jumps. At Nationals 2005, the judges fully ratified her triple axel. Again, I will accept what both the judges AND the veteran ex-skater commentators like Peggy Fleming say over what YOU say anyday. I'm not going to believe the phrase "definitely cheated" until I hear it from a judge or commentator.

    Now, Kimmie has said that she wishes to restore the triple axel to her programs. I hope she can.

    By the way - your continuous implication that judges and/or commentators will deliberately speak of a higher quality then they are thinking just doesn't carry any weight at all. I think some of you are just using that to serve your purpose. After all, if it were TRUE, who's to say it's never been done for Irina or Midori or Tonya or Mao Asada? This fixation on "Only Kimmie gets inflated marks, only Kimmie has cheated on jumps, etc..........." is very REVEALING as to your motive or your bias , or whatever.
    To repeat myself, again.

  11. #56
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    Posters who have a strong favorite will put down a competitor with the phrase: underrotated. Sometimes it's true but not always.

    Joe

  12. #57
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    Dorothy Hammil could hang her jumps in the air before landing.

    Midori, Tonya and Tara had easy rotations in the air.

    Joe

  13. #58
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    I may be wrong about Kimmie's triple axel. I was just commenting on what it looked like to me. To me it looked slightly more than a 1/4 turn cheat.

  14. #59
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    Even if Kimmie's triple axel is not cheated, it still pales totally in comparision to Harding and Ito IMHO, and I question Fleming's motive if somebody of her knowledge and stature suggests otherwise. That is not Kimmie dislike, that is just not having bad eyesight.

  15. #60
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    Lotta talk and no answers, seems like an easy one too.

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