View Poll Results: Best women jumper of all time?

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  • Midori Ito

    137 56.85%
  • Tonya Harding

    13 5.39%
  • Irina Slutskaya

    22 9.13%
  • Mao Asada

    24 9.96%
  • Surya Bonaly

    7 2.90%
  • Miki Ando

    6 2.49%
  • Petra Burka

    0 0%
  • Tara Lipinski

    9 3.73%
  • Denise Biellman

    4 1.66%
  • other

    19 7.88%
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Thread: Best women jumper of all time?

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by JonnyCoop
    Um -- Ito won both the short and long progams at the '90 Worlds; the reason she didn't win the whole thing was because she was 10th in the figures. '91 is when the problems started.
    Midori had ankle injury problems during the 1991 season. However, she was back to normal in the 1992 season (which began around Oct/Nov 1991). She had great success, except that she had to settle for a silver at the 1992 Olympics.

    Vash
    Last edited by Vash01; 05-21-2006 at 02:46 AM.

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by evenstar
    I may be wrong about Kimmie's triple axel. I was just commenting on what it looked like to me. To me it looked slightly more than a 1/4 turn cheat.
    This is the biggest question in CoP. Is the Caller infallible? If the spectator saw it on TV what angle did the camera show? Do the eyewitnesses (those who saw it live) agree?

    Joe

  3. #63
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    I am so thrilled Irina is second by a decisive margin, I expected Ito to dominate, but as an Irina fan to see her with that many votes, and well ahead of Harding and al, I am thrilled.

    I wonder though if I had made a poll of the best 2 or 3 women jumpers of all time and requested 2 or chosen per person, if she would still be up there. Maybe I will try that sometime. Just because the 2nd most vote you as the best, does not mean more think you are one of the 2 best.

  4. #64
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    I know there are those who feel she doesn't deserve to breath much less skate, I had to vote for Tonya Harding... just because someone is stupid, doesn't mean they don't deserve credit where its due... Tonya made a career out of being the best darn jumper ever... I still get pissed whenever I think about how she sabotaged her dreams & then to sabotage them when it wasn't even necessary... what a waste. :banging:

  5. #65
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    When Tonya landed her jumps cleanly I think they might have been the best, even over Ito's because of the wrapped freeleg Ito had on her jumps. Tonya was the most similar to Ito in height, distance, rotation, flow on landings, etc....and she had her legs pulled in tightly together and was absolutely straight in the air in her jumps. That is when she landed them though, she often was out of shape and would only land 2 triples in alot of her programs. After 1991 she in fact had only about 1 out of 3 programs where she did more than 2 or 3 triples.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by slutskayafan21
    When Tonya landed her jumps cleanly I think they might have been the best, even over Ito's because of the wrapped freeleg Ito had on her jumps. Tonya was the most similar to Ito in height, distance, rotation, flow on landings, etc....and she had her legs pulled in tightly together and was absolutely straight in the air in her jumps. That is when she landed them though, she often was out of shape and would only land 2 triples in alot of her programs. After 1991 she in fact had only about 1 out of 3 programs where she did more than 2 or 3 triples.
    I know... And that's the second thing that pisses me off about her... such a waste & in so many ways... I will never forget that first triple axel... what a sight...

    As for Ito... Other than the jump off the ice thing, I've never been a fan of her skating nor her jumps. Leg wraps are so ugly & speak of a person too lazy to correct bad technique... IMO. But I don't blame the skaters, I blame their coach.

  7. #67
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    Midori's leg wrap was not a major one, and it never bothered me, may be because everything else about her jump was so good. She had incredible height, and the best speed going into the jumps and on the landings (better than Tonya's, IMO). Tonya was also wonderfully athletic, but not as consistent on the difficult jumps & 3-3's as Midori.

    Talking of leg wrap, Yukari Nakano's used to distract me a lot but after I started enjoying the rest of her skating, it did not bother me.

    Vash

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vash01
    Talking of leg wrap, Yukari Nakano's used to distract me a lot but after I started enjoying the rest of her skating, it did not bother me.

    Vash
    ITA... while Yukari's wrap is distracting, I love watching her skate... she has sparkle... Outside of their jumps, did Midori and Tonya have other elements that stood out? I can't seem to remember...

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kwanford Wife
    As for Ito... Other than the jump off the ice thing, I've never been a fan of her skating nor her jumps. Leg wraps are so ugly & speak of a person too lazy to correct bad technique... IMO. But I don't blame the skaters, I blame their coach.
    Well Ito was coached by Machiko Yamada - who also coaches Mao Asada and she doesn't have a wrap so I don't really get your point about the coach thing.

    ITA with Vash - Midori's leg wrap thing is sooooo overblown. If you actually watch her programs, many of her jumps aren't wrapped such as the triple axel, sal and toe. The most noticeable would be the loop. But I think it just added to the expolsiveness in the air. It kind of slows down the rotation when you watch them and really accentuates the incredible height she got.

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by floskate
    Well Ito was coached by Machiko Yamada - who also coaches Mao Asada and she doesn't have a wrap so I don't really get your point about the coach thing.
    It is a coach's job to act as a skater's eyes during practice sessions and coach on improvements in technique & style. If a skater is unable to correct sloppy/poor/lazy technique, then it is the coach's job to assist in correcting that mistake. That's my point.

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kwanford Wife
    It is a coach's job to act as a skater's eyes during practice sessions and coach on improvements in technique & style. If a skater is unable to correct sloppy/poor/lazy technique, then it is the coach's job to assist in correcting that mistake. That's my point.
    But the coach can only go so far, in the end it's up to the skater to get it done. It doesn't matter how much breath the coach wastes insisting on the skater doing something, if the skater doesn't want to change it then the coach can actually do nothing about it - if both stubbornly stick to their guns then where does that leave the partnership...kind of like Goebel and Carol perhaps?

    Ultimately like all the skaters say - in the final analysis you're out there on the ice on your own. They should take responsibilty for how they skate.

    The alterntive is maybe also like the flutz - the skater can only land the triple with the major flaw. Take out the major flaw and the skater can no longer land a triple. In order to be competitive the skater must land the triple so do you insist on correct technique and eliminate any chance of success because you no longer have the arsenal of triple jumps required to be competitive, or do you allow the skater to continue with flawed technique because they get better marks landing the flawed triples? It can be tactical.

    Ant
    Last edited by antmanb; 05-12-2006 at 10:43 AM.

  12. #72
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    And further to what Antmanb wrote - if it aint broke don't fix it right?

    There is a video available at fsvids of Midori at the 1981 World Juniors aged 11. She landed triple toe, sal and loop in that competition. She got flip and lutz a year later.

    Paul Wylie won the mens event that year with one triple toe - and that's it. Carol Heiss is commentating. And instead of berating her for a wrap, she's praising the girl to the skies because she was frankly amazing. Technique isn't black and white. It's not a case of "this is the right way and the only way". The wrap "black mark" comes from skaters who have had this habit and as they have grown it has impinged their jumping ability. Midori Ito clearly was an exception to that rule.

    Was she ever dinged on technical for this supposed flaw? 5 6.0's at 1989 Worlds for technical Merit suggest not.

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kwanford Wife
    ITA... while Yukari's wrap is distracting, I love watching her skate... she has sparkle... Outside of their jumps, did Midori and Tonya have other elements that stood out? I can't seem to remember...
    Midori and Tonya were both excellent spinners. Midori's flying sitspin was very exciting. Tonya had a lot of power in her stroking. I think she had a pretty good Ina Bauer.

    Vash

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vash01
    Midori and Tonya were both excellent spinners. Midori's flying sitspin was very exciting. Tonya had a lot of power in her stroking. I think she had a pretty good Ina Bauer.

    Vash
    That is so true about Midori & Tonya ~ I always remember their jumps but never their other elements... But thanks to YouTube, I went back & found their old programs for review... Tonya's Ina was a lovely thing... And both had good edges.

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by floskate
    And further to what Antmanb wrote - if it aint broke don't fix it right?

    There is a video available at fsvids of Midori at the 1981 World Juniors aged 11. She landed triple toe, sal and loop in that competition. She got flip and lutz a year later.

    Paul Wylie won the mens event that year with one triple toe - and that's it. Carol Heiss is commentating. And instead of berating her for a wrap, she's praising the girl to the skies because she was frankly amazing. Technique isn't black and white. It's not a case of "this is the right way and the only way". The wrap "black mark" comes from skaters who have had this habit and as they have grown it has impinged their jumping ability. Midori Ito clearly was an exception to that rule.

    Was she ever dinged on technical for this supposed flaw? 5 6.0's at 1989 Worlds for technical Merit suggest not.
    Alright, I conceed to you, Ant & Flo on the whole coach's responsibility concerning technique... You all make very good points. It just always seemed to me that a big part of a coach's job was to assist a skater in developing correct technique, but it appears that I'm wrong (and I'm pleased to say the world didn't end... ) Thanks for the insight!

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