Bebe, Stephanie, and other non-Olympians | Page 2 | Golden Skate

Bebe, Stephanie, and other non-Olympians

hockeyfan228

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Joubert was not on my predictions list because he was demoralized after not being able to capitalize on Plushenko's withdrawal in Moscow and was defeating himself this season, being followed by the French press and whining to them about how undervalued the quad was, in a period when he was not landing it and other jumps cleanly. Unlike Buttle's, Joubert's PCS have not been stellar when he fails to land jumps. Plus most of the predictions were made before he returned to Matrix, and after Buttle had skated with great energy and focus in the Olympics LP. I think rising to CoP has done wonders for Joubert's spins, and not imitating Yagudin has done wonders for his footwork, and they're now always there, regardless of how he's jumping. I still don't think they are on par with Buttle's, but if Buttle doesn't land his jumps and Joubert does, Joubert gets high PCS, even when his programs are empty. (He wouldn't be the first or only.) Because that's the way the numbers add up.

I'm thrilled he went back to Matrix and got his jumps back. I hope he can build from the Matrix, instead of regressing in his choice of LP's, which he had done since 2004.

I think there's a huge difference between a skater who has superb jumping technique and had regressed, one who has stood on the European podium each of the five years he's competed and was a World silver medallist -- Joubert -- and one who has dodgy jump technique, like Czisny. That isn't to say the Czisny, who made a major leap this past season, and who has completed her first season in her new hinged boots, cannot continue to improve. She needs a jump coach, though, unless she develops the preternatural confidence and ability to gut out jumps despite bad technique like Leung, who also made enormous strides this season.
 
Joined
Mar 14, 2006
Joesitz said:
I have a problem with fans posting doomsday for skaters based on their last performance(s).

YES. Also:

* fans who constantly try to retire 21 year old skaters
* posters who seem to take pleasure in dumping (esp on the same skaters over and over)

But I digress. This thread was really about younger, non-Olympians, so:

To those who keep bringing up Yu Na Kim, Mao and Elene - I couldn't agree more. I have only seen one little Kim video but WOW - she has everything.

What about the young guys? Who are the ones to watch?
 

krenseby

Final Flight
Joined
Jan 8, 2006
Re:

Joesitz said:
I would love the two divas to skip Nats so that we can get 3 new Ladies on the podium.

I would also love for the two divas to skip on Nats and give the other ladies a chance to make it to the podium.

Unfortunately, if these two skaters leave the amateur world, there's nowhere for them to go. Ice Wars and World Team Challenge isn't enough of a competitive challenge for talented skaters who can manage a 7 triple program with multiple combination jumps along with difficult spins and spirals.

In today's figure skating, you are either compete as an amateur skater or you don't compete at all. Sad but true.
 
Joined
Mar 14, 2006
Excuse me, but if "the two divas" (only one of whom is really competitive now so why always speak of the two?) are strong enough to get on the podium, why on earth shouldn't they?

Are the judges/system really so miserable that they are going to STOP Kimmie (or other non-diva) from winning a medal if she skates her socks off? (One would think recent history would disprove this thesis.)

Are you going to see a LESS exciting competition because one particular (beautiful) skater (OK, maybe two) is in it?

Is it just Sasha and Michelle who should retire, or also Fumie, Irina, Shiz, and everyone else over 21, regardless of recent medals which to the naked eye would seem to indicate that they still have quite a bit of competitive juice left?

If they really are ready for the pasture, don't you think their performances and scores will make that clear to them?

I really don't get it.

Excuse my temper, but the constant harping on Sasha to quit just seems cruel and I don't like cruelty to ANYONE, certainly not to harmless (and brilliant) young figure skaters.
 
Joined
Jul 11, 2003
Rush to Conclusions Where did I say anyone should retire?

As to Sasha retiring I think that was payback to all the MK fans who were being forcefed that Kwan should retire prior to Sasha's 2nd failling for gold at the Olys.
If the two big ones want to continue, then so be it. they have a right to that decision, but I don't necessarily have to agree and I have a right to my decision.

The thread was about the US lady skaters who are not Cohen and Kwan. Kimmie is still in that category but she did squeeze in a silver at Nats due to Kwan's wd. Kimmie should now go for a Nats gold, imo, and we can get on with the new era.

I contend to discuss the second tier US ladies with Kwan and Cohen around is of no importance in the Sport. It's a lock if they skate and the USFS will be happy.

Joe
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
Spun Silver said:
Excuse my temper, but the constant harping on Sasha to quit just seems cruel and I don't like cruelty to ANYONE, certainly not to harmless (and brilliant) young figure skaters.
But the other way to look at it is, this is a complement to Sasha. People are saying, well, if Sasha competes she will obviously beat everyone else easily, so it is more interesting to speculate on what might happen if Sasha is not there.

Personally, I don't expect Sasha to retire any time soon. As Krenseby points out, what would she do if she "went pro?"

But I also hope she can find time for a good long rest, like skipping the Grand Prix series. She skated great at the Olympics, but by the time of Worlds she had obviously run out of gas and was skating on fumes. Like Michelle in recent seasons, the constant pounding on her body year after year has taken its toll, even though she is only 21.

MM :)
 

Sylvia

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 25, 2003
Spun Silver said:
What about the young guys? Who are the ones to watch?
I'd be happy to weigh in on this topic... but perhaps a new and separate thread should be started for it? :)

Numbers Cruncher - has Becky Bereswill (5th in junior at Midwestern Sectionals) moved/tested up to senior already?
 

R.D.

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Spun Silver said:
Excuse my temper, but the constant harping on Sasha to quit just seems cruel and I don't like cruelty to ANYONE, certainly not to harmless (and brilliant) young figure skaters.


Remember it happened to MK, too. Her fans also got tired of it. Now it's Cohen's turn. I think she'll leave anyway and go to Hollywood (like all real divas ;) ) but if she does stay in, be prepared for a lot more.
 

R.D.

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
People are saying, well, if Sasha competes she will obviously beat everyone else easily, so it is more interesting to speculate on what might happen if Sasha is not there.

But the irony in that statement is that that's not really been happening. :rofl:

(OK, save nationals.)
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
It was Nationals that I was thinking about, since this thread is about the prospects of the rising U.S. stars. I think Kimmie's win at worlds was the only time any U.S. skater except Michelle beat Sasha at anything for the last four years. (?)

To me, bright though the future may be for our next generation, Sasha is still in a league of her own on the American scene. (Michelle is in a galaxy of her own, LOL.)

MM :)
 
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R.D.

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
I think Kimmie's win at worlds was the only time any U.S. skater except Michelle beat Sasha at anything for the last four years.

I think you're right.

If MK stays in (assuming Cohen leaves), it would be interesting to see how she stacks up against Kimmie. A fresh new matchup. Who will rise, and who will fold? MK has the experience but Kim has the edge in Tech and Nerves. Still, anyone can have a bad day.

And if MK leaves as well, I'm almost SURE kimmie will be the new US champ next year. Well, I suppose one never knows what can happen, but that's my fortune-telling for the day. :laugh:

oh yeah...MM, you typed "NN" at the end of your sig...just a heads up ;) :laugh:
 

R.D.

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Another great picture (and yes, I wish it were larger. But I don't have a picture folder for her so I guess she goes in the "misc" category :laugh:
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
Red Dog said:
If MK stays in (assuming Cohen leaves), it would be interesting to see how she stacks up against Kimmie. A fresh new matchup. Who will rise, and who will fold? MK has the experience but Kim has the edge in Tech and Nerves. Still, anyone can have a bad day.

And if MK leaves as well, I'm almost SURE Kimmie will be the new US champ next year. Well, I suppose one never knows what can happen, but that's my fortune-telling for the day. :laugh:
Actually, I believe it will be the opposite. I think Michelle will retire, after an unparalled career in competitive skating spanning more that a decade.

I think Sasha, four years younger, is a long way from done.

And I don't by any means think Kimmie is a shoo-in against other challengers of her generation.

MM :)
 

R.D.

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
I thought MK would surely be done after this year. I'm surprised she's even WEIGHING the option of going to '10. I think I remember her saying a long time ago that 06 was what she was aiming for. At least maybe I'd figure she may try one more season to make up for sitting out the 06 season, but she'd really be an old geezer at 29 :rofl:

As for SC her heart doesn't seem to be in it. And I know from experience that if your heart is not in it, there's no way you can expect to do well, whatever "it" might be. I think she's at the typical crossroads most of us 19-21 year olds are at now, lol.

And Kimmie- she will have a rough time ahead of her. But the question is, can she bounce back again? IMO, that's the mark of a true champion. Champions don't win all the time but they certainly can overcome adversity.
 
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MFarone

Final Flight
Joined
Aug 20, 2003
Country
United-States
The young ones

Love Czisny's line, spins and spirals. I think she is on a full academic scholarship so I'm sure her practice time is limited. IIRC school was the reason she was late arriving at Nationals this year. Perhaps a jump coach (if she can afford to do that) would help her.

Bebe - I've always disliked her programs - until this year. Sarah Kawahara has captured all that energy and produced a couple of good programs. In past years Bebe just seemed to fly around the ice without much direction - not holding moves out and just being frantic (to me JMO). I'm not sure she can ever really overcome the hip problems and have a full array of jumps. Perhaps another year of working with Frank Carroll will help her with the jumps and two clean programs.

Stephanie was delightful at Nationals - I gave her standing O's. Without a lot more reliable triple jumps I don't believe she can be a contender. She is wonderfully entertaining and original but her jumps are really not there and she is starting college (I assume full time) this fall.

Kimmie - she is certainly a delightful young lady and deserving of respect for her World gold. I hesitate to crown her as the "face of the future" as Peggy did because I think it just way too much pressure. Kimmie will have enough pressure without the media going into complete overdrive about her. She really won Worlds on the strength of her triple/triples. Like Shizuka, Kimmie's triple/triples have frequently been downgraded. Her 3A was nowhere to be seen this season. Can she maintain/regain the technical while developing the presentation? I hope so, but time will tell.

Katy Taylor - I liked her in 2005 eventhough the program was kind of a disaster. She was good this year too at Nationals. I like her presentation but not sure if she can come up with the technical goods.

Christine Z. - Liked her a Nationals but I thought her program wasn't quite as difficult as most of the other top ladies. Looking forward to seeing more of her.

Michelle Kwan :love: my all time favorite and Sasha the lovely - If they can still meet the physical demands and want to compete, why not! If they can deal with perhaps not making the podium as time goes on, well more power to them. There are a lot of skaters every year at Nationals that really don't have a chance at the podium yet they obviously love to skate and love to be at Nationals. It makes the season exciting and the competition fun to watch.

Maureen
 

R.D.

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Kimmie - she is certainly a delightful young lady and deserving of respect for her World gold. I hesitate to crown her as the "face of the future" as Peggy did because I think it just way too much pressure. Kimmie will have enough pressure without the media going into complete overdrive about her. She really won Worlds on the strength of her triple/triples. Like Shizuka, Kimmie's triple/triples have frequently been downgraded. Her 3A was nowhere to be seen this season. Can she maintain/regain the technical while developing the presentation? I hope so, but time will tell.

And if Kwan leaves, expect the media pressure to kick into overdrive.
 

MKFSfan

Medalist
Joined
Mar 15, 2006
Mathman said:
It was Nationals that I was thinking about, since this thread is about the prospects of the rising U.S. stars. I think Kimmie's win at worlds was the only time any U.S. skater except Michelle beat Sasha at anything for the last four years. (?)

Not to nit-pick, but technically Sarah DID beat Sasha 3 years ago-2003 Nationals! And AP was robbed of 3rd...

Red Dog said:
I thought MK would surely be done after this year. I'm surprised she's even WEIGHING the option of going to '10. I think I remember her saying a long time ago that 06 was what she was aiming for

In Michelle's defense, she is leaving all her options open and is not so much "weighing" the option of 2010 as she is not committing or closing any doors. As a MK fan, I'd rather hear that her future is one day at a time, than gets jerked in a different direction every other week thanks to an indecisive answer and a writer who only hears what they want to write. Not that I blame Sasha for all the hoopla, but if she says,"I'd like to eventually get into acting. I think I need time off after COI." that becomes,"Sasha is going to quit skating and pursue acting." :eek:hwell:
 

R.D.

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Not to nit-pick, but technically Sarah DID beat Sasha 3 years ago-2003 Nationals! And AP was robbed of 3rd...

Oh yeah, I forgot about that.

n Michelle's defense, she is leaving all her options open and is not so much "weighing" the option of 2010 as she is not committing or closing any doors.

It more or less comes to the same thing, IMO. If she didn't want to continue, she would have "closed that door". Not closing it tells me it's still on her mind SOMEWHERE...yes, she hasn't committed yet but she has to be thinking about it somehow. And yes, I like that she keeps her word and makes an announcement only when she's SURE that's what she wants to do.

but if she says,"I'd like to eventually get into acting. I think I need time off after COI." that becomes,"Sasha is going to quit skating and pursue acting."

EXACTLY
 

Numbers Cruncher

Rinkside
Joined
Feb 28, 2005
Non-Olympians, remember?

Ok darlings, knock off the unending Sasha and Michelle thing! I don't even bother to read those anymore and thought this was a pretty good thread to discuss the up and comings. I love them all! Which is my failing because I have a hard time finding fault, I get all caught up in, "Oh, pretty dress." Another reason I don't judge but do the numbers instead. ;)

Sylvia - Yes, I see that Becky B has passed her Senior Freeskate test, so I'm hoping to see her show up soon. She looked to me that she had a lot of good things going for her, but the nerves seemed to kick in and make her kind of scattered. (I was wrong about this, she's passed her sr mif, but not fs yet, sorry)

I see Rachael Flatt recently competed at the Senior level at the Dallas Competition, she got first in both FS and Short. However, she may just be testing the water as I've not seen that she's tested SR FS. Oh boy, this is a dynamo, she's can jump like crazy and she's fast and the expression is good considering she's going to turn 14 in July.

I reviewed the Pacific Sectional event to see Carolyn Zhang, she's something too, isn't she? Wonderful flexibility, great spins, and good presentation. I'm always a little leary of the jumps with these bitty little skaters though, they rotate very fast, which sometimes means their jumps are small. Then they have to relearn a different technique when their bodies become heavier.

So you just never know, the 13-14-15 years are such a growing time, many will step back a year to get more power for jumping. And a junior lady's presentation is not always a senior lady's presentation.

NC
 
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