In Johnny's own words

MKFSfan · May 6, 2006

Spun Silver said:
Good point. His saying again (in case we didn't hear it the first time?) that Sasha didn't deserve the silver took me aback. But he also says she should have beat Slutskaya in another competition, so obviously he's not anti-SC.

Johnny want to show how Irina, with a spin combo messed up more than his, beat a "nearly clean" Sasha to show he should've been above a skater with a fall even though he had a problematic spin. What he failed to mention is while Sasha's combo spin garnered more points than Irina's, she also had a 2 footed 3flip AND a problem with her spiral. If that is "nearly clean..." :disagree: Stupid comparision on Johnny's part. Had he used Michelle, who WAS clean, but who's low levels kept her from being higher than 3rd, then his point against COP would have been made.

Mathman · May 6, 2006

Hi Debdelilah, thanks for joining us! :agree:

Mathman

debdelilah · May 6, 2006

MKFSfan said:
Johnny want to show how Irina, with a spin combo messed up more than his, beat a "nearly clean" Sasha to show he should've been above a skater with a fall even though he had a problematic spin. What he failed to mention is while Sasha's combo spin garnered more points than Irina's, she also had a 2 footed 3flip AND a problem with her spiral. If that is "nearly clean..." :disagree: Stupid comparision on Johnny's part. Had he used Michelle, who WAS clean, but who's low levels kept her from being higher than 3rd, then his point against COP would have been made.

I wouldn't call his comparison "stupid", (lord knows I've been unintentionally unclear in my writing far more times than I would have liked), but it wasn't clear what he was saying. My impression was that he was saying Irina was being favored because of that competition being in Moscow, and Emanuel was favored because of skating in Calgary. Otherwise, why describe Sasha's skate as "nearly clean"?

I think what he finds frustrating about COP is how the technical points can come down to a hairline decision about whether rotations were completed. If a triple is downgraded to a double AND has an imperfect landing, I guess under COP it's just as bad as a ratifed fully rotated triple with a fall.

He seemed very frustrated and a little more negative towards other skaters than he usually is--usually he is extremely polite and kind. But, in his favor, this is a very different type of sport than baseball; it's both an art and a very competitive individual vs. individual sport. You have to believe in yourself in order to perform--if you think you're going to fall and make a fool of yourself and be torn down, why do it? He just seemed to me as though he's trying to build himself up so that he can be strong going into the next season. Earlier this season he seemed very depressed about himself and his skating.

debdelilah · May 6, 2006

Mathman said:
Hi Debdelilah, thanks for joining us! :agree:

Mathman

Thank you for the welcome, and I hope I don't outwear it.

Joesitz (RIP) · May 6, 2006

Alsace said:
But baseball is a team sport. I don't follow your analogy.

It's ok. You don't have to know athletes of other Sports who reserve their comments until they retire and the book comes out (and often socko. Makes Johnny look naive.)

Joe

Joesitz (RIP) · May 6, 2006

Spun Silver said:
Good point. His saying again (in case we didn't hear it the first time?) that Sasha didn't deserve the silver took me aback. But he also says she should have beat Slutskaya in another competition, so obviously he's not anti-SC.

Such "putdowns" don't seem to have any malice or personal animus or inherent negativity, so they don't bother me. He just gives his views as if the world weren't going to jump on them. There is an innocence about him, to me.

If you enjoy his putdowns without any retorts by those whom he puts down, by all means enjoy. I don't. I do think the world of his figure skating. It's a breath of fresh air from all the pseudoToreadors and Warriors.

Do you know of any other figure skaters that comment negatively on their competitors? Just asking. I don't know of any.

Joe

Spun Silver · May 6, 2006

You win on this one.

Spun Silver · May 6, 2006

MKFSfan said:
Johnny want to show how Irina, with a spin combo messed up more than his, beat a "nearly clean" Sasha to show he should've been above a skater with a fall even though he had a problematic spin. What he failed to mention is while Sasha's combo spin garnered more points than Irina's, she also had a 2 footed 3flip AND a problem with her spiral. If that is "nearly clean..." :disagree: Stupid comparision on Johnny's part. Had he used Michelle, who WAS clean, but who's low levels kept her from being higher than 3rd, then his point against COP would have been made.

Just to clarify: Johnny was talking about 2005 worlds? I just watched these two FS and Irina's was clearly stronger with fewer flaws (and I speak as a S-fan).

psycho · May 6, 2006

I read the journal and the Q&A and I can't see a single place where Johnny put someone down. Are we reading the same entries? Where are you getting all these "putdowns"?

Ptichka · May 6, 2006

psycho said:
I read the journal and the Q&A and I can't see a single place where Johnny put someone down. Are we reading the same entries? Where are you getting all these "putdowns"?

I agree, except for what he says about Sandhu.

blackrose050 · May 6, 2006

Spun Silver said:
Just to clarify: Johnny was talking about 2005 worlds? I just watched these two FS and Irina's was clearly stronger with fewer flaws (and I speak as a S-fan).

I'm not sure that he was talking about the FS. Maybe the SP?

MKFSfan · May 6, 2006

Spun Silver said:
Just to clarify: Johnny was talking about 2005 worlds? I just watched these two FS and Irina's was clearly stronger with fewer flaws (and I speak as a S-fan).

I'm pretty sure he is referring to the SP because Irina had a big mistake in her combo spin (not to mention a problem with her jump combo)-she had to restart it after losing position of her beillmann. And Johnny brought up her combo spin to compare to the fact he had a problem with his spin. Irina's LP was her best skate ever, IMO. She had 2 3/3's and had she done a 2nd lutz, not a 3rd loop, her score would've been even higher. I don't think a clean Sasha would've beaten her, with Worlds in Moscow or not in Moscow, that year.

debdelilah said:
I wouldn't call his comparison "stupid", (lord knows I've been unintentionally unclear in my writing far more times than I would have liked), but it wasn't clear what he was saying. My impression was that he was saying Irina was being favored because of that competition being in Moscow, and Emanuel was favored because of skating in Calgary. Otherwise, why describe Sasha's skate as "nearly clean"?

You're right...I shouldn't have used "stupid". I didn't mean to say he is stupid, but I think that was a poor example for the point he wanted to make. I figured he wanted to show how skating in your home country helps in your favor, but I thought that was a bad example-the whole Moscow/Irina vs Canada/Emanuel, because Sasha wasn't "nearly clean" as Johnny stated. As it was, both ladies had flawed SP's. I thought Irina should've been ahead of Sasha, and maybe she did get the benefit there being the favorite.If that was his point, OK, point taken, but to make it sound like Sasha was robbed, because she was "nearly clean" while Irina messed up on her spin, well, anyone who saw Worlds 2005 knows that isn't the way it happened, regardless of who you'd rather see in 1st after the SP...

Anyway, obviously, Johnny felt he was robbed since Emanuel fell and still beat him, and believes it was due to the fact Eman was skating in Canada while Canadian!

Lanie · May 6, 2006

Johnny making a comment like Sasha being robbed is :rofl:

as we all know how much he adores Irina.

debdelilah · May 6, 2006

MKFSfan said:
Anyway, obviously, Johnny felt he was robbed since Emanuel fell and still beat him, and believes it was due to the fact Eman was skating in Canada while Canadian!

Yes. But he was only talking about the qualifying round and short program there; he knows that he fell apart in the free skate, and isn't saying he should have placed any higher overall. It was more like he was saying he didn't understand his scores. I think his choreography in the World's SP was noticably better than it was in the Olympics; and he made a similar mistake with his 3-flip in the Olympic SP, so it must have seemed to him like his spin error was the only negative difference between the two. His short program score, being seven points lower at Worlds, must have come as a shock to him--and that was because the triple flip was downgraded to a double and he didn't get higher PCS scores even though the choreography seemed better.

debdelilah · May 6, 2006

MKFSfan said:
Anyway, obviously, Johnny felt he was robbed since Emanuel fell and still beat him, and believes it was due to the fact Eman was skating in Canada while Canadian!

Yes. But he was only talking about the qualifying round and short program there; he knows that he fell apart in the free skate, and isn't saying he should have placed any higher overall. It was more like he was saying he didn't understand his scores. I think his choreography in the World's SP was noticably better than it was in the Olympics; and he made a similar mistake with his 3-flip in the Olympic SP, so it must have seemed to him like his spin error was the only negative difference between the two. His short program score, being seven points lower at Worlds, must have come as a shock to him--and that was because the triple flip was downgraded to a double and he didn't get higher PCS scores even though the choreography seemed better.

Joesitz (RIP) · May 6, 2006

I think it's time we all acknowledged that collusion is a bit more difficult in figure skating now then it was in SLC. In order to show preference for a skater, the instigator would have to get the approval of a minimum of 6 judges to work with and at the same time hope that those 6 are in the random draw. They would then have to plan the GoEs in favor of the annointed one and not make it look obvious. - Not easy! With all the possible Russian judges from whatever countries, poor Irina didn't get more than one, I believe.

As to the skater's home country. That is a double edged sword. It can work in his/her favor and give him/her the impetus to win or just the opposite. It's basically handling pressure. Think Carolina in Torino.

So my take on this is that Johnny is wrong to think E-man was placed higher than him because he is Canadian. It was quite obvious in the LP who was the better that night.

Joe

debdelilah · May 6, 2006

Joesitz said:
Do you know of any other figure skaters that comment negatively on their competitors? Just asking. I don't know of any.
Joe

Brian Joubert has an autobiography published in France now, where he talks about the mutual dislike between him and Evgeni Plushenko. Apparently, he made shadow boxing moves at Evgeni's head before a competition, and Evgeni, in response, refused to shake his hand afterwards. (Evgeni won gold and Brian was in third.) He says they don't get along.

TT&MM said, in an interview after the Olympic freeskate, that they didn't feel much pity for the Zhangs(after their fall) because the Zhangs were aggressive during warmups and would not let them do their jumps. It doesn't make me like TT&MM or the Zhangs any less, because I don't think "getting in the way" is intentional, and yet I understand how people can think they've been intentionally wronged, especially in a stressful situation like this one.

Objectivity is HARD sometimes. Have you ever gotten carried away feeling wronged about something, only to realize how wrong you were to feel that way after things had calmed down? It's very hard to get past personal bias; it's very easy to be biased and honest at the same time, because you really are saying what you think.

So I'm not angry with Johnny--if I were, I'd be a hypocrite. Also, he's been keeping that journal since he was fifteen years old; in that whole time, I don't think he's posted anything negative about any competitor. His comment about Emmanuel is very forgivable in light of that. (And he follows it with a smile; I didn't get the sense that he was carrying a huge dislike for Emmanuel.) In the past, he has gone out of his way to compliment his competitors, and Emmanuel in particular, more than the others.

psycho · May 6, 2006

Ptichka said:
I agree, except for what he says about Sandhu.

What did he say about Sandhu that was a "putdown"?
The only thing he said in relation to Eman was that he didn't understand his scores. Nowhere did he say anything bad about Eman.
Nowhere did he say that Eman did better because he was Canadian either. Johnny has the beef witht the judging system, not Eman, and the Irina example was to illustrate an instance when a similar mistake under the system was not severely penalized there, but was penalized here.

Where does it say anything about bias based on nationality and anything bad about Eman?!

slutskayafan21 · May 6, 2006

I thought his score in the short program was a bit low, and Sandhu's with a fall was too high. So I somewhat agree with him.
Sandhu with a fall being over Lambiel with two smaller errors was crazy. or a squeeky clean Oda even without a quad. Also Weir was hit hard for a wobbly spin.

Joesitz (RIP) · May 6, 2006

debdelilah - I read something that Joubert commenting on Stephane just before the Worlds said something to the effect that Stephane made that story up about his knee injury. Oh well. boys will be boys.

Joe

In Johnny's own words

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