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Thread: Music, what do you want to hear?

  1. #16
    MY TVC 1 5 SeaniBu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kasey
    In terms of music that could be used in eligible competition, I would love to see some more blues or jazz variations in use, by skaters who do it good!
    I think this is a great idea too, as far as fitting the eligibility aspect. Which is one thing I personally would like to see change. I am not the most knowledgeable of skaters or fans for that matter. "But the music is so old school." I have seen the rules designating what and speculation on why, but don't see the reason that there is not some form of progress into the 21st century. Maybe the SP could be a "popular song" and leave the LP for the old style. This is so odd to me that the age group of skaters never matches on a larger scale, with what the same age group is listening to.

    I hear songs in 4/4 with 60bpm all the time on the popular radio stations. Just today the idea of seeing Yuka skate to "Your Body is a Wonderland" by John Mayer gave me chills Even "Suspicious Mind" is more identifiable than some of these "classics." Sorry, just being blunt.

    I have adapted more fans of FS by having them watch a LP with Ben and Tanith to an Enya song. Carolina is getting the biggest "why don't they use this music" when synced to "Send Me One My Way" by Rusted Root .

    It really is quite amazing to see people who don't like FS and then they watch it with "new" music and no commentary and sit there for an hour. I know "we" all love watching and some like the commentary, but would it take away from anything to have the sport progress with music, a SP with no commentary? Anyway I have addressed this topic before.

    Maybe it is a licensing thing, but would have to say I think the more viewers would increase the revenue making the licensing a moot point.

    BOT - More diverse side
    Sasha - "Brown Eyed Girl" by Van Morrison
    Michelle - "Island In The Sun" by Weezer
    Dennis and Melissa - "You're Still The One" by Shania Twain
    E Pulshinko - "Take the A Train" pref, Duke Ellington (Plushy's wild whipping around of the arms fits that Jazz dance style to me).
    Johnny - "Forever In Blue Jeans" by Niel Diamond


    Well I wont go on, I really do think that pour song choises, like "Green Acres" with Ben And Tanith was "fun" but stupid due to the music not lending it's self to anything but a gimmick. You want to be silly use something Like Sammy Davis Jr., at least the music fits while it is still presenting a fantastic talent like Sammy! So In short - like I'm evershort - Classics and not so much classical would bring the sport to the new "upcoming fans" and hopefully stop the dwindling interest. I would like it more, but I still do like it. I will always love Ave Maria by anyone (prefer Schubert's choral arrangement best though, but you can't have lyrics?) Romeo and Juliet (Tchaikovsky every time for this kid) but a change is nice, a surprise something bigger then Manhattan Steamroller plays some classical piece trying to make it hip. I think it sounds good the way it was to start. And that is enough ranting by Seanibu today.

    I really like allot of these suggestions and music selections for everyone, and agree with allot. I guess the intent was looking for new ideas, a way to push the boundaries and bring some attention to FS. But there is nothing"wrong" with loving it the way it is.

    I am glad everyone owns these posts so everyone gives their opinion.

    Just thoughts, all while smiling in the joy that there are others who are passionate in love for this sport.
    Last edited by SeaniBu; 05-22-2006 at 08:36 PM.

  2. #17
    Rinkside
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    As a musician and skater, skaters' music is a big pet peeve of mine. (May I suggest a 50-year moratorium on any part of Carmen...)Unfortunately, most skaters, even the elites, have no musical background. It seems like whatever the music is, the skater should interpret it. Regrettably, even with overpriced choreographers, most programs come out uninspiring, as if the music is just in the background. Granted, there are exceptions, but the majority of skaters and coaches have no musical clue whatsoever. So we can fantasize about what we think would be fun to see a particular skater skate to, but the reality is that it ain't gonna happen.

  3. #18
    Rooting for the divas with Kwanford Spun Silver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skaterkitty
    Regrettably, even with overpriced choreographers, most programs come out uninspiring, as if the music is just in the background.
    Why do you suppose? I can see coaches and skaters not knowing music, but choreographers?

    In general, your view is a little too pessimistic for me! I have to live in hope. Maybe young skaters who grow up reading these boards will realize they gotta do better in the music & choreo departments!

  4. #19
    MY TVC 1 5 SeaniBu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spun Silver
    Why do you suppose? I can see coaches and skaters not knowing music, but choreographers?

    In general, your view is a little too pessimistic for me! I have to live in hope. Maybe young skaters who grow up reading these boards will realize they gotta do better in the music & choreo departments!

  5. #20
    Custom Title Joesitz's Avatar
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    IMO, Most skaters are not musical. Also, there is the problem of moving those skates around to the beat of the music. It's not easy and few skaters can manage that. Imagine yourself trying to keep to the beat of a Vivaldi piece with those skates? Much easier in ballet slippers.

    Except for a very few skaters, dealing with the music as a musical piece is not easy in the early ages. They are basically training for skating tricks and do not train those tricks to the music. Every thing a young ballet dancer trains for is with the music constantly. Young skaters, unfortunately, don't get the music while training except for repititious insignificant background tunes. So when they are faced with a program, they have no clue that their music is important. It's the tricks that count.

    Skaters basically need a very pronounced beat that they can follow on their skates. Changes in rhythms should be limited except for the footwork sequences, and for gliding through the spiral sequences. Individual interpretation is really very difficult as is good expression. Skaters tend to utilize the character of the story rather than giving an original interpretation of the music.

    Easy music to skate to, imo, would be: Carmen, Don Q., Malaguena, and so many others that you hear every year. Maybe, this is the way figure skating should be.

    The above does not apply to the very rare exceptionally musical skaters and by no means the Dance division where musicality is the basis of the contest.

    Joe

  6. #21
    Custom Title antmanb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joesitz
    Except for a very few skaters, dealing with the music as a musical piece is not easy in the early ages. They are basically training for skating tricks and do not train those tricks to the music. Every thing a young ballet dancer trains for is with the music constantly. Young skaters, unfortunately, don't get the music while training except for repititious insignificant background tunes. So when they are faced with a program, they have no clue that their music is important. It's the tricks that count.
    I would think that only really bad coaches would do this. Even the little ice princesses at my rink who are struggling with their doubles hve to reptitively do their programs over and over again to their music. Once the skaters "get" an element the coach then puts into a series of connected moves which the sklaters then repeat constantly when they do the element. You rarely see the girls just hammering away at their doubles its nearly always small segments of their programs.

    The junior national champ who trains some of the time at my rink already has her program music sorted...she's barely got enough program choreographed to practice it so she does the snippets they've done exactly on time with the music and at the moment you can see her building up her confidence in the choreography so that she starts doing the elemtns to the music not despite of it.

    I think all the girsl at our rink are taught this way - i'd have thought most are.

    Ant

  7. #22
    MY TVC 1 5 SeaniBu's Avatar
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    I disagree with Joesitz on keeping a beat. I don't think that is an issue for,
    1. there is beat in all music used already.
    2. It is not a matter of keeping the beet but keeping with, isn't it all a matter of timing? "moment or emphasis on crescendos" as such.
    3. Change in little "bites" can be good.
    4. Free program music selections are exactly the music that could be incorporated. Thus proving the "new" music discussed is already "skate-able" just not practiced / worked into programs.

    So IMO, if they aren't trying then the evolution of "new" music will never be incorporated. How can you develop without trying to work with it.

    Plus, Why no Lyrics, even Latin or Italian "classical pieces?
    Last edited by SeaniBu; 05-31-2006 at 11:17 PM.

  8. #23
    Custom Title Joesitz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by seanibu
    Humbling submitting my opinion -

    I disagree with Joesitz (sorry I highly respect you) on keeping a beat. I don't think that is an issue for,
    Seanibu - You are ok to correct me anytime. And I will give you my reply.
    Not everyone is inherently musical and especially young kids. Of course there are always exceptions when you see that toddler beating out a tune with a stick or a little older kid gyrating to the music that he/she is listening to.

    How many kids did you know when you were growing up taking piano lessons and then stopped when they realized they just didn't have it? Yet there were a few who were not musical but became good pianists because they continued all those exercises.

    Now I just want to emphasize that not all skaters are inherently musical, but those who are not, and continue to work at it, arrive at a degree of success.

    From my view, few skaters show their musicality, and using those old warhorse musical selections give them a beat they can skate to. It just doesn't do it for me, but if you see all those beats and rhythms in most skaters, that's ok.

    Most fans will see a major jump sequence as the stunning move rather than the flow of the music. Some skaters that are not technical gifted do have musical abilities on the ice. Your Jenny Kirk was quite musical.

    Joe

  9. #24
    Custom Title Joesitz's Avatar
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    Ant - I have no reason to disagree with you. What I was trying to say was that by the time the choreographer gets the job, he/she has a lot of work to get the music instilled in that skater if the skater did not skate to some music on his/her own. If the skater is musical, the choreography falls into place much easier.

    Joe

  10. #25
    MY TVC 1 5 SeaniBu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joesitz
    Your Jenny Kirk was quite musical.

    Joe
    Can I just revel in the thought of that being literally true just for one minute (insert Homer Simpson emotioncon leaning head back and drooling) J•e•n•n•y

    - I note the "roll eye doesn't roll so he looks as though he is pondering a thought.



    Yes very musical, Million Dollar Baby was so on. (insert swooning emotioncon)

    So the one's that are "rhythm endowed" could skate to "new" and the ones that aren't would be "classical music" selections? Maybe an unfair advantage, yet if you have more of a "broadened gift" (skating and musical talent) you are in a sence more gifted IMO. I know that isn't nice, but realistic.

    Added thought - Michelle Kwan to me is still the most "rhythm endowed" ladies skater (still suprised how far off the end she was on Bolero - and still got 6.0 ), and would have to give Engie Pushinko the male. JAT IMO.

  11. #26
    Custom Title Joesitz's Avatar
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    Seanibu- criticize me but don't put words in my mouth. Skaters can skate to any music they want as long as there is no vocal. The beats in carmen are all very definite and the less musical skaters can utilize music like it is a metronome.

    Now I'm over and out with this topic.

    Joe

  12. #27
    MY TVC 1 5 SeaniBu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joesitz
    Seanibu- criticize me but don't put words in my mouth.

    Now I'm over and out with this topic.

    Joe



    Still can't figure out what the heck you are talking about. 2 others have reviewed this and their feedback was my interpretation may have been offensive saying skaters that are more musical AND still have the tech (being "bravada or lyrical") are endowed with more talent. Anyway sorry to get Joe bothered.
    Last edited by SeaniBu; 06-01-2006 at 11:39 AM.

  13. #28
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    Still would like to have a better understanding of why the music is not allowed to have Lyrics - as stated before - even classical Latin, German, Italian....etc.?
    I just don't see how the Vienna Boys Choir singing Ave Maria would make a difference over a non choral version?

  14. #29
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by seanibu
    ... my interpretation may have been offensive saying skaters that are more musical AND still have the tech (being "bravada or lyrical") are endowed with more talent.
    ? To me, that seems self-evidently true. What could be offensive about that?
    Quote Originally Posted by seanibu
    Still would like to have a better understanding of why the music is not allowed to have Lyrics - as stated before - even classical Latin, German, Italian....etc.?

    I just don't see how the Vienna Boys Choir singing Ave Maria would make a difference over a non choral version?
    I agree, that's a mystery. I have a feeling that the only reason for the restriction is tradition. We never did it that way before, durned if we're going to start doing it now.

    They did relax the prohibition against vocals in dance. I don't know exactly what the new rules allow and don't allow.

    For singles skating, I think they also loosened up to the extent that you can have voices singing la-la-la as long as there aren't any actual words.

    One thing I don't like about vocal music, though, is that it kind of sets up a competition between the singer and the skater for the audience's attention.

    For the same reason, I notice that no one ever choses wind concertos. I'd like to see Buttle do the Haydn trumpet concerto in E-flat, and I would love to see Michelle skate to the Mozart oboe concerto in C. But by the time the instrumentalist gives his/her interpretation of the the copmposer's intent, and then the choreographer gives his/her interpretation of the composer and the soloist, and then the skater gives his/her interpretation of the interpretation of the interpretation -- that's a little too much going on, IMHO.

    MM

  15. #30
    Custom Title antmanb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman
    ? To me, that seems self-evidently true. What could be offensive about that?I agree, that's a mystery. I have a feeling that the only reason for the restriction is tradition. We never did it that way before, durned if we're going to start doing it now.

    They did relax the prohibition against vocals in dance. I don't know exactly what the new rules allow and don't allow.

    For singles skating, I think they also loosened up to the extent that you can have voices singing la-la-la as long as there aren't any actual words.

    One thing I don't like about vocal music, though, is that it kind of sets up a competition between the singer and the skater for the audience's attention.

    For the same reason, I notice that no one ever choses wind concertos. I'd like to see Buttle do the Haydn trumpet concerto in E-flat, and I would love to see Michelle skate to the Mozart oboe concerto in C. But by the time the instrumentalist gives his/her interpretation of the the copmposer's intent, and then the choreographer gives his/her interpretation of the composer and the soloist, and then the skater gives his/her interpretation of the interpretation of the interpretation -- that's a little too much going on, IMHO.

    MM
    I'm kind of happy about the ban in lyrics for singles skating otherwise the danger is that we would end up with skaters skating to generic ballads like they often do for exhibitions which frankly is a little boring, or even worse have Sandra Bezic pick up on one line of a song and whoreograph programs (yes i'm thinking of monstrosity she whoreographed for Yamaguchi to Rob Thomas and Santana's Smooth)!!

    I like the relaxation of the rule allowing for vocals where the voice is used "as an instrument". Although the recording was awful, i quite like the Sarah Brightman track that Butyrskaya used for an SP one season. On the topic why did every track Maria skated to sound like it had been recorded using a dictaphone pressed up against a too loud speaker?!

    Ant

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