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Thread: Music, what do you want to hear?

  1. #46
    Rinkside
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman
    We have no realistic expectation that teenaged athletes (many of them home schooled) would have any knowledge of music at all, and even less interest in acquiring any.
    OK, I disagree with the "teenagers don't know anything about music" sentiment because when I was a teen, I had a pretty good grasp on musical knowledge. Of course, I grew up in a family full of musicians (one of my uncles is a noted avant guarde composer), so I might be an anomaly.

    I've often felt parents were taking skaters out of school for convenience, not because they were giving them a better education. Sticking to the three R's just doesn't cut it in a sport where athleticism and artistry are critical components.

  2. #47
    Skating Freak Barbie
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    Seanibu....

    Now THAT'S a dang Beilmann spin!! I think any B-man position attempted next season that doesn't look like that should get no credit, and -3 GOE!!!

  3. #48
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    I would like to see Carmen, I miss skaters skating to that. It is awesome skating music.

  4. #49
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by theoreticalgirl
    OK, I disagree with the "teenagers don't know anything about music" sentiment because when I was a teen, I had a pretty good grasp on musical knowledge. Of course, I grew up in a family full of musicians (one of my uncles is a noted avant guarde composer), so I might be an anomaly.
    What I meant was, just because a kid likes to do triple Lutzes doesn't per se make him any more likely to be "musical" than, for instance, an aspiring rugby player.
    I've often felt parents were taking skaters out of school for convenience, not because they were giving them a better education. Sticking to the three R's just doesn't cut it in a sport where athleticism and artistry are critical components.
    Yes, I agree with that. There was considerable discussion last year when it was reported (I'm not sure how accurately) in Blades on Ice that Yu-na Kim didn't go to school at all, home or otherwise, because she was being pushed so hard to skate, skate, skate.

    It's a tough decision. If you are the parent of a 13-year-old Michelle Kwan or Tara Lipinski, who even at that age shows world championship potential, what are you (and she) willing to sacrifice to get there? Her education?

    As my new favorite critical observer puts it, comparing musical education of dancers versus figure skaters,

    "Despite comparisons between the disciplines, skating lacks a component crucial to dance – that of musical education. Dancers receive specialized training in music, such as voice or instrument lessons. Choreographer George Balanchine was also a noted pianist; no parallel immediately springs to mind in figure skating.

    "In contrast, skating’s off-ice training requires hours spent with personal trainers, ballet classes – anything to improve a skater’s physical, rather than artistic, technique. Because of these long hours spent training, many skaters study at private schools or are homeschooled. With focus on the basics of education, art and other elective curriculum are by necessity excised. Without receiving professional-like musical education, skaters rely upon on gut instinct, blind to the music’s possible cultural meanings, resulting in skaters embedding alternate meanings into the music..."
    (I would add "(or none)" after "alternate meanings.")

    http://herjazz.org/maria/emp2006
    Last edited by Mathman; 06-04-2006 at 07:10 AM.

  5. #50
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    My point about most skaters not being musical is because they were not born that way. We all know that a few are. They are the ones who pick up rhythms instinctively. Not unlike those talented kids who can paint portraits at an early age, or write poetry. If they have these innate talents they still have to develop them if they want to utilize them in life. Study, study, study. Do you not think that there was innate talent in Josh Bell as opposed to JoeShmo playing the violin?

    In the World of Skaters, they are no different on talents than the World of the Whole Population. Those gifted; those not.

    Don't forget skating is limited in its contents and inability to bend the foot where dancers do not have that problem. IMO, Carmen works for skaters because they do not have to stretch themselves too much to execute a program. The beat is heavy (not like Cage), there is various rhythms to work on, and it is a crowd pleaser when skated well. So why should a skater try a Bartok piece?

    You see why I need to go to the Ballet to see Artistry where the variety of music is essential.

    As a snide remark: How does anyone compare one skater's Carmen to another? They all look alike to me. the only differences are the clean elements, and that only counts in competitions.

    Joe

  6. #51
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    What Joe said, LOL.

    As much as we might wish it otherwise, skating is not ballet, skaters are not dancers. Someone who can skate a reasonably pretty Juliet or a rambunctious Carmen, while racking up 195 CoP points -- that's your world champion! (The rare exceptions, or course, are to be treasured.)

  7. #52
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    Here are some music suggestions

    www.skatemusiclist.com/music_suggestions.html

  8. #53
    Rinkside
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kasey
    Seanibu....

    Now THAT'S a dang Beilmann spin!! I think any B-man position attempted next season that doesn't look like that should get no credit, and -3 GOE!!!

    I agree. Most Beilmann's are just plain ugly, but that one looks great.

  9. #54
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    I have to admit that I am not convinced that using hipper music will do anything to build audiences and increase the appeal of the sport. IMHO young people who want to hear the latest Black Eyed Peas offering will go to a concert or stay home and listen to the radio; they won't go to COI.

    JMO.

  10. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by gio
    Here are some music suggestions

    www.skatemusiclist.com/music_suggestions.html
    That is a great list!!!

    And from the actual responses I get when syncing up a routine with different music (not BEP) - like ones I have already posted as "desires to hear and see" - I (not in theory or thinking) hear people say that "I like the new music better" or "I enjoy the free skate more, the music the lighting...." As far as the lighting...well I don't see that changing, but it would be nice if there was a way to have the same amount of light for the skaters without so much on the spectators. That's not really realistic nor do I think that would make a big difference to "appeal to get them to come." But as another poster has said already in this thread about catching FS up with the curve...

  11. #56
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    I think the problem with using pop music for skating (especially "pop" as it has sounded for the last decade or so), is that the rhythm structure is just way too choppy for skating; skating should of course more or less flow and therefor, IMO, so should the music, more or less, and most of current pop music does not really flow. (This is just IMHO). HOWEVER -- the early to mid 80s, when pop music was centered around a lot of New Wave -- now there is a LOT there that I think would make some great skating music.

    Also -- I'm not sure how many of you are familar with the music of Siouxsee and the Banshees, but their albums are a gold mine for really cool programs, especially in the Weird But In A Good Way Free Dance category; they did a song called "Lunar Camel" that would have been PERFECT for Shae-Lynn & Vic back in their early "heavy on the hydroplaning" days....

  12. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by theoreticalgirl
    While I agree with your comment about figure skaters not being musical, I completely disagree with this remark. How exactly does skating to the same 5-6 songs, let alone some of the most middlebrow examples of classical, encourage an interest in music?

    At this point, skating is about 50-60 years behind the curve in terms of musical usage -- it's time to start closing the gap.

    Personally speaking, I would like to see the following:

    - Movement away from the classical oeuvre, ie. the examples above. Who ever said something about banning Carmen, I am *so* with you!

    - Increased use of contemporary music, though not neccessarily derived from pop or movie soundtracks. Look to modern composers, underground/independent musicians, etc.

    - Music education. I believe that those uneducated about music will perpetuate the same stodgy ideas about what qualifies as "good" music for the sport. If skaters have to train their bodies to excel, they should also learn about music. People in dance and theatre disciplines must take vocal or instrument lessons, there should be something similar in figure skating.
    On that topic i'd say that i have really liked (and many may disagree) the purposely composed pieces that Maxim Rodriguez has done for the french skaters. I loved Abitbol & Bernadis paris programs, and alot of the time it was because of the good music that was purposefully composed for them. I'm fairly sure that candeloro's musketeer program (one the few of his i liked) was also purposefully choreographed by Maxim Rodrgiuez (isn't he an in law of condeloro's?).

    Ant

  13. #58
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    TT says that Americans have wonderful music. My problem with that, no one really does a good job to american music. It always comes out cutesy wootsy. The right selection of Cole Porter operetta type music and another selection of Steven Sonheim serious music could make us get away from the warhorses we must sit through year after years. JMO.

  14. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by slutskayafan21
    I would like to see Carmen, I miss skaters skating to that. It is awesome skating music.
    Too funny...

    I wanna see someone with great footwork skate to "Hotel California" that's what I want... I'd also like to see someone skate to something by Jimi Hendrix.

    I get so bored by The Mission, The Nutcracker, and all that other typical music... so boring!!!

  15. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman
    "In contrast, skating’s off-ice training requires hours spent with personal trainers, ballet classes – anything to improve a skater’s physical, rather than artistic, technique. Because of these long hours spent training, many skaters study at private schools or are homeschooled. With focus on the basics of education, art and other elective curriculum are by necessity excised. Without receiving professional-like musical education, skaters rely upon on gut instinct, blind to the music’s possible cultural meanings, resulting in skaters embedding alternate meanings into the music..."[/i] (I would add "(or none)" after "alternate meanings.")

    http://herjazz.org/maria/emp2006
    This would make me think that something like "popular music," rock etc..., would be easier for a skater to interpret. Doesn't the classical styles of music require a more "refined palette" to appreciate and understand? JAT

    Think about one of those cheesy rock ballads that were floating around in the 80s, you can't get anymore simple and "non musically inclined" than that.

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