Nnn Vs Sc

So, since it's the offseason, what better time than rehashing history???

I was searching YouTube (fabulous site!) and rewatched Naomi Nari Nam and Sasha Cohen's Nationals debute. I thought there were many similarities between the two.

~Both skaters were obviously taught that spinning, flexibility and pointed toes are very important. I LOVE NNN's layback and beillmann in her combo spin, as well as her forward charlotte.

~I think both were better with edge jumps. Nice double axles. Did NNN ever get a 3lutz? NNN was rumored to be working on 3/3's in loop endings, which probably ended her singles career.

The differences:

~I found Sasha to be a more aggressive, firey skater. She had more energy and attack, while NNN seemed more lyrical and soft. I perfer NNN's 1999 SP and LP to Sasha's 2000 programs. But Sasha came across as more hungry to win, more determined to succeed.

~I thought NNN looked more solid in her basics, while Sasha had some wobbly landings/edges, traveled in her spinning. I thought a lot of Sasha's elements (spirlas, spins, MITF) looked unfinished. She had some awkward entrances/exits into things. Then again, Sasha at least attempted a lutz, NNN didn't have one.

~I also found NNN to be more star-struck, maybe even lacking in confidence, like she didn't believe she belonged in Sr.s that year. Her post interview-she said something about standing on the podium next to Michelle being a dream come true. Sasha said something like,"I wouldn't have won even if I was clean. Michelle's an Olympian." Not sure if that was a foot in mouth comment: I was thinking, did she mean: I would have been robbed, or was that a hidden compliment, Michelle's a great skater and an Olympian. But I remember even back then, I was like...whoa...All in all, I thought both skaters would've benefited another year in Jr's. Who knows if NNN hadn't gotten injured-would she have overcome the pressure and been a top contender?

I don't recall who was hyped more, NNN or Sasha. NNN, to me, seemed to be overwhelmed and almost shy, while Sasha basked in the attention, and even self-hyped a bit.

Thoughts?

Great topic! I don't know which of the two I was more impressed with, Naomi in 1999 or Sasha in 2000.

Here is what Sport's illustrated said about NNN.

"It's always somebody," Danny Kwan said with a tortured sigh, minutes after his daughter Michelle won her second straight national championship and her third in four years. Why, in the moment of victory, was her dad wearing the long face? He had just glimpsed the future -- he and 6,571 fans in Salt Lake City's Delta Center, plus a national television audience -- and it must have looked suspiciously like the past.

The past, of course, was Kwan-slayer Tara Lipinski, who in 1996 burst on the scene at age 13, dethroned Kwan as the U.S. and world champ at 14, then snatched the gold medal from Kwan at the Nagano Olympics at 15. Before Kwan could say "Tara's tutu," her young nemesis had high-tailed it to the pros, leaving Kwan no one to compete with but herself.

Or so people thought until last Saturday night's breakthrough by another tiny (4'8") 13-year-old, Naomi Nari Nam of Irvine, Calif. "I've been around so long, I'm not easy to impress," said former U.S. Figure Skating Association president Morry Stillwell, "but before she had even finished, I was jumping out of my chair."

He wasn't alone. By the time Nari Nam was midway through her closing combination spin, the crowd was roaring approval from its feet. The doll-like Nari Nam had landed five triple jumps and unleashed an array of breathtaking spins, all the while dazzling fans with a natural, high-voltage smile. "She enjoys audiences," says her coach, John Nicks. "She's extremely musical and has an originality that's very exciting."

As a Kwan fan, both times I felt like, oh no, Michelle's history.

http://www.dianesrink.com/mkga/pow/michellenaomi.jpg

IMO, NNN has a great deal of competitive fire to try to come back as a pairs skater. I think she (and Sasha, also, with her injury problems over the years) really illustrate that MK must have been doing something right to have lasted so long.

I have always been a Sasha fan--say what you want, but there is no skater I find more interesting or beautiful to watch. Even when she isn't clean, I am still entranced by her programs...R&J at the Olympics, for example.

I agree with the person that said that NNN was more lyrical, less fiery. Although we've had the advantage of watching Sasha skate for 5-6 years now, whereas we only got one year of NNN, I'm almost positive that the two would have developed in different directions--NNN becoming more ballerina-like, while Sasha developed into her dramatic artsy-ness that we know today.

I know I was bowled over by Sasha sp at the Nat'ls in 2000. Less so by NNN, although I thought she was talented. I thought that Sasha seemed much more poised and mature on the ice than NNN did, even during 2000 when they competed together. Is that because of the age difference?

I don't feel fit to make a judgement because we never saw NNN develop fully as a skater. But there were obviously some similarities there--John Nicks knows how to make 'em. Pointed toes, perfect lines, spirals...he really made sure that they had the package. No sloppiness!

Thanks for the article! I sort of remember reading that, how NNN was the "future threat" to Michelle for the OGM.

It's hard to predict what could've been since 2000 NNN was injured, so we really only got one year out of her. She's only a year younger than Sasha, but I really thought she had more maturity and presence on the ice as a 13 year old than Sasha did as a 15 year old. NOT to knock 15 year old Sasha, because her SP that year was very impressive-she had a lot of spark and did a lot of things right, but her LP was kinda...messy...to me. NNN fell HARD in the SP, banged her head on the ice.

I didn't think that Sasha's LP did her justice, things didn't seem to flow right and the things that make Sasha "Sasha", like her spirals/MITF back then were not held out long enough, and her spins, while FAST and intricate, traveled badly. NNN, to me, was more "finished" at her debut. I wonder at what age NNN started seriously skating. Sasha started at 7, so she had 8 years of serious skating at that point. NNN seemed to have more going on in her LP. Actually, watching their first Nationals, I would pick NNN to be the better spinner and Sasha has more flexibility. IMO, NNN was also more expressive and musical.

I thought that NNN showed the most improvement the following year at Nats. Even though she had trouble with her jumps and fell in the standings; she greatly improved the power of her stroking and elements. I think that NNN was the better skater of the two; but Sasha was the lucky skater in that she was able to return from her injury.

As I remember, I think Naomi got a little more hype when she first came along than Sasha did a year later; part of this might be due to the article in SI that Mathman quoted. I don't recall Sasha getting a blurb of that nature in SI. (Actually, unless I missed it, the 2000 Nats pretty much got ignored by SI entirely).

Also, Naomi had the "up and coming" spotlight more or less to herself in 99. I was looking back at my clippings from these two Nationals, and in 99 there was quite a bit of Naomi, Naomi, Naomi, going on. In 2000, Sasha, as impressive a debut as she may have made, and as much as her skating style may have impressed many, had to share the "up and coming" spotlight to an extent with Sarah Hughes. Sarah had made her Nats Senior debut in 99 too, but was overshadowed by Naomi; her skating had matured enough a year later so she attracted a little more notice.

I remember being absolutely bowled over by Naomi's skating in '99. By then, in the wake of Taramania, I had gotten more than tired of little teenaged jumping beans with no musical sense or grasp of other fundamentals, and during the 90s we had seen far too many, especially on the National level. But Naomi just blew me away; great musical sense, terrific jumps, great spins, and just absolutely CHARMING out there. Few skaters, for me, have had the "Oh My God I Just LOVE her/him/them" factor going on the first time I saw them, but she certainly did.

As for Sasha, well --. I didn't have too much of a problem with her actual skating; there was a certain style and grace there, but it wasn't as polished overall as Naomi's skating was a year earlier. And back in those days (and this still held true until about 2 years ago), Sasha, to me, just had an aura about her, rather a Teen Spoiled Haughty Diva thing, that just completely left me cold regardless of how well she skated. She was much more businesslike whereas Naomi seemed to be out there having fun. Comparing the two from their Nats Senior debuts, I definitely think Naomi was much more likable by far.

IDLERACER said:

No other skater in history has ever been mauled by the puberty monster as brutally as NNN was. She grew something like seven inches within the space of six months, and never really regained her sea legs, although I think she is now a fine pair skater.​

When you look at pictures of her and Sasha Cohen taken in 1999, (like THIS one) they are the same height. When you look at pictures of them taken a year or so later, she is absolutely towering over Sasha.​

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Well NNN is only 5'2 now- same height as Sasha Cohen so she couldn't have been mauled that seriously by the puberty monster.

Personally, I would consider someone to be "substantially taller" if they're at least a head taller, as opposed to maybe just a forehead. As for towering, there was a picture in USA TODAY sometime the last couple of days that showed a women's basketball game with this 7'2 player standing behind a 5'6 one. Now THAT..... is towering. But then again I'm 6'2 so maybe my perception of relative heights may be just a little skewed.....

Idleracer,

I agree with you regarding Naomi and her rapid body changes. Not only did she get taller fast, she also put on bulk which probably threw off her jumps, etc. Not that Naomi is over weight, I don't mean that at all. Puberty just hit her more quickly than some.

I remember Naomi as a wonderfully graceful skater and was very bummed when she was injured.

Dizzy

dizzydi7 said:

Idleracer,

I agree with you regarding Naomi and her rapid body changes. Not only did she get taller fast, she also put on bulk which probably threw off her jumps, etc. Not that Naomi is over weight, I don't mean that at all. Puberty just hit her more quickly than some.

I remember Naomi as a wonderfully graceful skater and was very bummed when she was injured.

Dizzy

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i thought most of NNN's injuries were due to overtraining the 3/3loop and that during her off the ice period, she went through puberty because she was not training as hard??? Did she really change that much from 13-14 years old? I though she looked slightly larger in 2000 on video compared with 1999, but videos are deceiving one way or another. Never saw her live.

MKFS Fan,

You may be correct about Naomi's injuries resulting in off-ice time and then puberty. Perhaps it did happen as you say. I just know that she looked much bigger after her off-ice time and she never seemed to get back to where she was after her injuries.

It's all such a shame because she was showing great promise. However, I should be happy that at least she is back skating.

Dizzy

dizzydi7 said:

MKFS Fan,

You may be correct about Naomi's injuries resulting in off-ice time and then puberty. Perhaps it did happen as you say. I just know that she looked much bigger after her off-ice time and she never seemed to get back to where she was after her injuries.

It's all such a shame because she was showing great promise. However, I should be happy that at least she is back skating.

Dizzy

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That I do agree with. The video I saw of her comeback attempt last year, (2004???) from Sectionals, I would never have recognized NNN! She had grown and filled out. But that's to be expected after stopping serious trainig around the puberty age. That's probably why it's easier for someone like Irina, who has already grown and filled out, to come back after her time away, while Sarah Hughes had difficulty trying to comeback at SOI.

IDLERACER said:

When that picture was taken, they were both 4'9. Sasha grew alot more gradually. If you click HERE you will see that Naomi is substantially taller than her.​

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Since they're in evening wear and we can't see their shoes, its possible that NNN is wearing bigger heels than Sasha.

Ant