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Thread: German Pairs News

  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ptichka
    I never thought it made for effective justice to consult the victims. With all respect to victims, policy should be based on logic rather then pure emotions.
    In California, all crime victims are allowed to make statements that are considered at the time of sentencing. The victim's wishes/opinions, etc. are not binding. As I understand it, a lot of athletes "cooperated" with the Stasi, some more than others -- and some more willingly than others. The effect on the victims might be one (and only one) method of separating out the ones who need to cut out from those that might be forgiven.

  2. #47
    Custom Title 76olympics's Avatar
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    I never had a good feeling about Steuer for some reason-though people often gushed about his good looks. They also joshed about Mandy Woezel's stormy relationship with him and I have heard people say that her statements about him were solely prompted by a bad break-up. I thought her statements sounded more like someone who knew him very well and was very disillusioned as a result. I do believe that the German Federation did not act hastily from all accounts and his involvement with the Stasi was deep and long-lived.

    * I do realize that many people felt pressured to cooperate with the Stasi in East Germany at that time; I just don't think Steuer was one of the reluctant ones.

  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by 76olympics
    * I do realize that many people felt pressured to cooperate with the Stasi in East Germany at that time; I just don't think Steuer was one of the reluctant ones.
    You got that one right!!! To me he seed like a very proud citizen and member. So proud that he kept his involvement hidden even after the german reunion.

    The only ones suffering are Aljona and Robin. The last training sessions Steuer didn't show up and they only did ballet that day. They seems rather demotivated. I really wonder what happens in the official meeting with the german federation next week.

  4. #49
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    i still don't get the legalities of this. He was a member of the Stasi and therefore he is not permitted to coach figure skating. Is that correct?

    Does that apply to former membes of the Nazi party? or in Russia, the Communist Party? Does Russia prohibit former NKVD members from coaching?

    I will not argue the possibility that Steuer is not a decent person. However, I would really like to know Why hasn't this disclosure not been seen earlier? Also if all this was known before, why was he allowed to compete?

    Joe

  5. #50
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    i doubt there are, or were, any coaches that used to be NKVD members. NKVD was a precursor to KGB, and I just don't think any of them are alive. Most likely some of the coaches and athletes cooperated with KGB, I think you had to, to some degree, if you were to be allowed to travel outside of USSR. As far as I know, there is no stigma in Russia associated with being a member of communist party or KGB (look at Putin!). A lot of people were members of the communist party, it just something that was done routinely in a country that had only one officially recognized political party.

    Stassi was like a KGB, and Ingo was an informant. The deal here is that he lied to hide his involvement with them, and the degree of involvement. That started the rift. I think the key is that he lied. Dishonesty on any job application is a fair grounds for dismissal (this one is more public). I am sure that happens all the time and he is not the first one.

    I really feel bad for his students. They really have to move forward and the current developments are not helping. I have mixed feelings for him. He lied on an application, which is wrong and stupid. His was young and really had no choice but to cooperate with Stassi if he were to ahve a carrer. On the other hand, his reportedly more than eager informing on gellow athletes is very bothersome.

  6. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by STL_Blues_fan
    Stassi was like a KGB, and Ingo was an informant. The deal here is that he lied to hide his involvement with them, and the degree of involvement. That started the rift. I think the key is that he lied. Dishonesty on any job application is a fair grounds for dismissal (this one is more public). I am sure that happens all the time and he is not the first one.

    I really feel bad for his students. They really have to move forward and the current developments are not helping. I have mixed feelings for him. He lied on an application, which is wrong and stupid. His was young and really had no choice but to cooperate with Stassi if he were to ahve a carrer. On the other hand, his reportedly more than eager informing on gellow athletes is very bothersome.
    So being a Stassi member was ok if you admitted it when filling out an application. Is that correct? If so then he is not guilty of being a Stassi informant but guilty of lying. I presume former KGB members did not have applications to fill out so they could get jobs when and wherever. Since they were never asked on an application, they didn't have to lie.

    OK. The whole matter is one of the sin of lying. Steuer is guilty.

    Joe

  7. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joesitz
    So being a Stassi member was ok if you admitted it when filling out an application. Is that correct? If so then he is not guilty of being a Stassi informant but guilty of lying. I presume former KGB members did not have applications to fill out so they could get jobs when and wherever. Since they were never asked on an application, they didn't have to lie.

    OK. The whole matter is one of the sin of lying. Steuer is guilty.

    Joe
    Sure Steuer is guilty. Just like every member of the CIA is guilty. The work and methods aren't that different between the CIA and STASI. The only difference I see is that not everyone knows that a lot of former STASI member were the inspiration for the things CIA is doing nowadays.

  8. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joesitz
    So being a Stassi member was ok if you admitted it when filling out an application. Is that correct? If so then he is not guilty of being a Stassi informant but guilty of lying. I presume former KGB members did not have applications to fill out so they could get jobs when and wherever. Since they were never asked on an application, they didn't have to lie.

    OK. The whole matter is one of the sin of lying. Steuer is guilty.
    No. If he admitted to Stasi involvement, he certainly couldn't become a soldier of peace (that one makes sense). Technically, just being a Stasi informant would indeed have prevented him from coaching for the team; however, I tend to think that some kind of an arrangement could be made if he did fess up.

    As for KGB - as Yana has said, it's not a problem in Russia, but there are 14 other parts of the former USSR, some not nearly that tolerant. In Estonia, former Communists are actually often considered to be worse than former Nazis. :frown2:

  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman
    I love these translating programs. Here are the first two paragraphs of the article, courtesy of Wordlingo:

    11 May 2006
    Ingo tax is a mitlaeufer. That fits great the occupation: An ice art runner as state security service informers of subordinated importance. Unfortunately Mr. Steuer did not only jump on the ice powerfully. No, it also stretched itself and strained for the company. That is now for two months well-known. IN the Torsten humans according to all rules of the art denunziert.

    Nevertheless tax in an interview of the "Bild" newspaper was allowed to act like the pursued one, felt treated like "a murderer": The author as victims of a medialen witch hunt. This strategy tried tax Tuesday evening in the transmission "humans with Maischberger" away spiders.


    ITA: away with spiders!

    I once tried to use Babblefish to read an article in French about Sale and Pelletier. I learned a lot about Jamie Salt Merchant and David Fur Trader.

    Babelfish is very funny - that's were Stephane Lindemann kept coming out as "lime tree man"!!

    Ant

  10. #55
    MY TVC 1 5 SeaniBu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by antmanb

    Babelfish is very funny - that's were Stephane Lindemann kept coming out as "lime tree man"!!

    Ant
    I gave up on Babelfish a while ago because Worldlingo has more options. I don't know how they could be different either way you translate something, but webpage works better then cutting and pasting for trans.
    http://www.worldlingo.com/en/product...ranslator.html

  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaana
    There is a difference between working and working, LOL. The problem is that Steur apparently worked much more than the others. I noticed on FSUniverse this article with plenty of info in German:

    http://www.faz.net/s/Rub9CD731D06F17...~Scontent.html
    Sorry, it took me a few extra days to get to this. There isn’t really much new in this article, except the anger of the author about Steuer’s actions and his playing the victim. I’ve translated most of it and condensed the rest, following the paragraphing of the original article.

    Feel free to ask for clarification if needed. I was careful in my translation, but if any German speakers want to correct something I’ve written, please do so. I did my best, but I don’t always understand the nuances.

    The commentator is reviewing a TV program that appeared in Germany on May 9. I can’t speak to the accuracy of the claim that those who refused to inform generally did not face penalty. I do think athletes might not have been allowed to travel to foreign competitions, for instance. Penalty can be a relative thing. But it also seems pretty clear, from what little has been leaked about the files, that Steuer did inform voluntarily, even suggesting names to be added to his snoop list. The two cases reported in this story are the only cases I’ve heard reported anywhere. There probably won’t be much more reported.
    -------
    Shameless Act
    A Commentary by Anno Hecker

    Ingo Steuer is a follower. That fits the job: figure skater as Stasi snoop of secondary status. It’s been known for two months that Ingo Steuer was an informant for the Stasi and actively reported on individuals.

    Despite this fact, he acted like the persecuted one in an interview with the "Bild" newspaper. He said he felt he was being treated like a “murderer”: the perpetrator as the victim of a media witch hunt. Tuesday evening, Steuer tried the same strategy on the TV program “People with Maischberger” [Mrs. Maischberger is the host of the show]. It’s hard to believe, but somehow this man with more than 80 documented, conspiratorial reports on acquaintances and colleagues pulled it off. And he did it with a group of Stasi experts. But Vera Lengsfeld, who was once betrayed by her husband, didn’t know anything about the Steuer case. Peter-Michael Diestel, the last Interior Minister of East Germany is a kind of Stasi lawyer/advocate. The historian, Wolfgang Leonhard, dreams of catching the big fish, and not of exposing some figure skater, “what rubbish.” That left just the representative for Stasi files in the state of Thuringia, the courageous Hildigund Neubert. But, unfortunately, she hadn’t read Steuer’s files, just the newspaper.

    Maischberger didn’t do her role justice

    Just doing some daily reading would have been enough. Mrs. Maischberger could have rebutted Steuer’s persecution theory, his suspicion that jealousy/a grudge caused him to be hunted, with just one sentence. Steuer’s snooping became known as the result of a German Olympic Committee investigation. Stasi people should not be sent to the Olympics using tax funds, at least not those who have saddled themselves with guilt.

    Guilt? Steuer told Mrs. Maischberger that you can’t talk about guilt in his case. “I didn’t cause trouble for anyone. I swear. I reported petty stuff.” Right. Petty stuff like the information of a 22-year-old sports freak about the possible escape attempt by a former female skater: “It is possible that she wants to go to France, to a French coach with whom she had intimate contact on April 7, 1989, during the ISU skating show in Karl Marx Stadt.” According to the Stasi, Steuer also observed a female athlete climbing into the trailer of a Holiday on Ice performer “to f*ck.” Yeah, all petty stuff.

    The “worst case”

    The fact that the Stasi commission for German sports has labeled the Steuer case the worst in its 10-year advisory period doesn’t make the snoop a Stasi general. But without these reliable informers, the system could not have functioned. Voluntary participation had great meaning. Those who hesitated, or who were revolted by the prospect of turning in their friends and acquaintances did not, in general, need to fear punishment.

    So far the truth about most of the informers in sports has hardly harmed them. Not much has happened to Steuer, either. If things don’t work out between the DEU and Steuer, he will find a job in another country. Many a betrayed East German refugee dreamed of such a future. In a Stasi jail cell, thanks to the followers.
    Last edited by Anke G; 05-27-2006 at 12:19 PM.

  12. #57
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    Anke, thank you very much for the translation!

    I'm still on the fence about this. As for persection - sure, you didn't really have to, but you couldn't make it into the elite sport otherwise. According to records, he started working with Stasi at the age of 14 - too young to make any real conscious decision; it's also hard to overlook that he did not do anything illegal. Overall, his behavior through this situation has not endeared me to him; he almost made it as easy for the German federation to fire him as he possibly could; and, after all, no one is suing him for lying on his forms, they just don't want a person who worked with the authorities of GDR to receive money from or be a representative of FRG. So I guess it's fair...

  13. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ptichka
    According to records, he started working with Stasi at the age of 14 - too young to make any real conscious decision; it's also hard to overlook that he did not do anything illegal. .
    Yep but just young enough to be brainwash and turned into "a good" citizen according to the old system. I would have made it very far in GDR.

    Well I personally liked living in Germany after the fall of GDR a lot more, but there might be quite a few people that would disagree. Somehow I get the feeling Steuer would be one of them. He kept his "OATH of secrecy" towards his secret identity long after the system his work as a spy had sworn to protect long after the system was brought down.

  14. #59
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    Thanks for the translation, Anke G.

  15. #60
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    http://de.sports.yahoo.com/29052006/...tzer-paar.html

    On May 29, Aliona Savchenko and Robin Szolkowy met with the DEU President, Reinhard Mirmseker, and the DEU Sports Director, Udo Dönsdorf. Mirmseker and Dönsdorf reiterated their position that they will no longer support Ingo Steuer. Savchenko and Szolkowy reiterated their position that they absolutely want to continue working with Steuer. They asked for some time to think things over. Robin called the meeting "orderly" and said that no decisions had been made. The meeting took place in Munich, which is where the DEU offices are located.

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