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Thread: Skaters you Felt Stayed Past their Prime

  1. #16
    Custom Title 76olympics's Avatar
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    Kwanford, I agree with you and that's why I hesitated to post. If I didn't care for a skater's style, I might feel like I have seen them forever (Slutskaya, Weiss, etc.). But , if they were placing high enough in the sport, there really is a reason for them to stay. Plus, their fans would disagree with me anyway! Some skaters, like Shepherd Clark, stayed around a long time without medaling. Some would say they shouldn't have lingered. But, if they were able to qualify and could afford the expenses of the sport, then I feel that decision rested with them, the Federations and the judges (though I can certainly have my opinion! ).

    To illustrate how we can all differ:

    I have to say Boitano was skating at a very high level in the early 1990s. His artistry was really even better than it was during most of his amateur career ( with the exception of 1988 and those incredible programs). It was just his bad fortune that he injured himself during that year he reinstated for the Olympics. That one year was an anomaly for him; he skated as well or better than most of the amateurs before and after ( with the exception of the quad., but some eligible didn't have that either). I always felt bad for him about 1994 and I think he handled that situation with a lot of grace.

    Plus, I have to add that LOTS of people outside and inside the skating world felt Wylie stayed too long without obtaining the results he wanted. Then, look what happened at Albertville! I still get excited every time I see those performances from him!
    Last edited by 76olympics; 05-26-2006 at 12:04 PM.

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by 76olympics
    But , if they were placing high enough in the sport, there really is a reason for them to stay. Plus, their fans would disagree with me anyway! Some skaters, like Shepherd Clark, stayed around a long time without medaling. Some would say they shouldn't have lingered. But, if they were able to qualify and could afford the expenses of the sport, then I feel that decision rested with them, the Federations and the judges (though I can certainly have my opinion! ).

    Boitano was skating at a very high level in the early 1990s. His artistry was really even better than it was during most of his amateur career ( with the exception of 1988 and those incredible programs). It was just his bad fortune that he injured himself during that year he reinstated for the Olympics. That one year was an anomaly for him; he skated as well or better than most of the amateurs before and after ( with the exception of the quad., but some eligible didn't have that either). I always felt bad for him about 1994 and I think he handled that situation with a lot of grace.

    Plus, I have to add that LOTS of people outside and inside the skating world felt Wylie stayed too long without obtaining the results he wanted. Then, look what happened at Albertville! I still get excited every time I see those performances from him!
    Exactly! And you're right... Brian and Paul are probably better examples of my arguement anyway (us Kwan fans have that weird dna issue when anything negative is said about the Kween we get an attitude... )

    Its a good thing the skating fans have little to no say in the matter because look at how many great performances we would've missed if we did...

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman
    I hope you meant 2003. Past her prime or not, she won the world championship that year.

    MM
    I'm not the biggest Michelle Kwan fan. I don't mean to troll, or to flame anyone, but she just doesn't grab me. While staying into 2003 was a good idea, and I had forgotten that she had won the WC that year, staying after 2003 was a bad idea in my opinion. Why?

    Well, for one thing, it's always best to leave on top. Michelle's battled injuries etc for the past few years. I think it may have been best for her, condfidence-wise, to NOT have to deal with the injuries, the problems over the past few years.

    THIS IS ALL JUST MY OPINION! (I feel as though I need to say this many times because Michelle Kwan is so loved here by everyone and I'm not being all flattering).

    The feeling I'm getting as I've been watching her is that she's phoning in performances over the past few years as well. In the past, (1998 Nat'ls, etc.) Michelle has worn her heart on her sleeve, and when I (and this is JUST me, folks) watched her skate over the past few years, I didnt' get that same feeling. I don't know...I felt like I was watching her do the same thing over and over. I was ready to see someone new rule the roost for a while. I think that this year at Nationals was one of the most refreshing years I had seen in a long time. Even though the performances weren't great by anyone's standards, beyond Sasha, ANYTHING could have happened.

    Although I appreciate Michelle's talent and believe that she's done great things, I believe that she should have gone professional after her win at the 2003 world championships...

    ...AGAIN, JUST MY OPINION! I don't want ANYONE to get offended by what I said. I'm sorry if I insulted you in any shape way or form.

  4. #19
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    I disagree that Michelle should have retired. In 2003, she tied for second place on the all time most-world-titles list; she didn't tie the record for most US titles until 2005 -- and I think she wanted to tie that record.

    More importantly, MK in Moscow -- 4th place, which (when combined with Sasha's 2nd place) got 3 slots for US ladies in Torino; if MK had not been in Moscow, then Sasha's 2nd place would have been combined with Jenny Kirk's placement would only have gotten two US ladies to Torino. (Bebe Liang, or whoever was next-in-order-of-the-age-eligibles, is not likely to have come in 11th place or better). Since MK has been instrumental in securing spots for US ladies at the next year's events since 1994, I think this could well be important to her (when people have been doing a job for a long time, they often think it is their "special responsibility")

  5. #20
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    Hi, UnsaneLily (great name, LOL!). Hey, you never have to apologize for having an opinion!

    Attyfan just made some good points, IMHO.

    Yet, going along with what UnsaneLily said, hindsight is always 20-20. I wonder what Michelle would have chosen to do if she could have foreseen that, starting in 2004 her aches and pains would start escalating to the point where it affected her training and performances.

    (Well, like Zuranthium said, I wouldn't have wanted her to retire before 2004 Nationals and her breathtaking performance of Tosca.)

    Young athletes live with pain all the time. At that age, with the optimism of youth, you always think, this is nothing -- I can play through this. Then one day, you can't.

    Still, I think that Michelle will be glad that she pushed through to 2006, regardless of the outcome. This way, she can rest content that she gave everything she had. Otherwise, she would always be left wondering what might have happened.

    JMO.

    Mathman

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    Stojko, Stojko, Stojko, Stojko, and Stojko.

  7. #22
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    I don't think Michael Weiss stayed too long. He was competitive in the U.S. right up to this year, and still was able to take a credible shot at making the 2006 Olympic team.

    He's still popular with audiences (hey, he beat Goebel and Savoie, losing only to the ever-popular Weir, in the December viewer's vote event). His "quad" is no worse than that of the other American men. In fact, since the CoP does not penalize two-footing the landing very much, he can probably do better under the New Judging System than the old.

    Too bad he can't throw in a "tornado" and get the CoP bonus for a unique and original element. (OT -- has anyone ever received this bonus?)

    MM
    Last edited by Mathman; 05-26-2006 at 03:54 PM.

  8. #23
    Custom Title ceg15's Avatar
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    Stojko
    Weiss
    Kwan
    Robinson
    Wing and Lowe... it just seems like they were just always "there" and never really improving or going anywere.

  9. #24
    and... World Peace! Tonichelle's Avatar
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    Re: Weiss - he did seem to do better under the new system... unfortunately old habits die hard and he didn't just go for it and see where he ended up... he kept playing it safe, and that cost him a spot on the team (again from what we heard after the men's LP in STL)

    I love Mike, am glad he stuck around otherwise I wouldn't have given a hoot about the men and would have missed out on Evan and Matt and Ryan and half a dozen others!
    Last edited by Tonichelle; 05-26-2006 at 07:16 PM.

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tonichelle
    Re: Weiss - he did seem to do better under the new system... unfortunately old habits die hard and he didn't just go for it and see where he ended up... he kept playing it safe, and that cost him a spot on the team (again from what we heard after the men's LP in STL)

    I love Mike, am glad he stuck around otherwise I wouldn't have given a hoot about the men and would have missed out on Evan and Matt and Ryan and half a dozen others!
    Do you really think they ever wanted Mike on the Olympic team this year though? I get the impression they would have put Weir and Lysacek on the team no matter what, and they pretty much had an idea who they wanted on the team and who they didnt.

  11. #26
    MY TVC 1 5 SeaniBu's Avatar
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  12. #27
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    I think "they" would have been OK with sending Weiss instead of Savoie if Weiss had skated better in the LP at nationals.

    Mike was in second place after the short, but missed both of his triple Axels in the long, while Matt stepped up big time in the long (even beating Weir, who was third).

    If anything, I think Savoie has been the forgotten step-child. I like Mike, but I was glad to see Matt get his day in the sun.

    BTW, it has ocurred to me that there is a built-in assumption on this thread that a competitor ought to retire once he is "past his prime."

    Why? Everyone starts out at the bottom, works his way up as high as he can go, then tapers off. If you are a little past your absolute peak, does that mean you can't skate at all any more?

    Plushenko was "past his prime" last year, but he still won the Olympic gold medal.

    MM

  13. #28
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    Cohen. She was a disaster this year, internationally. Her best days are way behind her.

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    Re:

    Quote Originally Posted by dancindiva03
    Cohen. She was a disaster this year, internationally. Her best days are way behind her.
    I actually wonder if Cohen would have done a lot better if Michelle was able to compete last season. If Michelle would have done well at nationals and at least one cheesefest or GP event, the media would have focused on her as an Olympic Gold contender as much as on Sasha. The pressure would have been off Sasha and she might have performed better at both Olympics and Worlds.

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by ceg15
    Stojko
    Weiss
    Kwan
    Robinson
    Wing and Lowe... it just seems like they were just always "there" and never really improving or going anywere.
    And Jeff.
    It has been how many years since skated as senior? Yet still can't get his triple Axel consistant.

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