Skaters you Felt Stayed Past their Prime | Page 2 | Golden Skate

Skaters you Felt Stayed Past their Prime

Joined
Jun 21, 2003
I don't think Michael Weiss stayed too long. He was competitive in the U.S. right up to this year, and still was able to take a credible shot at making the 2006 Olympic team.

He's still popular with audiences (hey, he beat Goebel and Savoie, losing only to the ever-popular Weir, in the December viewer's vote event). His "quad" is no worse than that of the other American men. In fact, since the CoP does not penalize two-footing the landing very much, he can probably do better under the New Judging System than the old.

Too bad he can't throw in a "tornado" and get the CoP bonus for a unique and original element. (OT -- has anyone ever received this bonus?)

MM :)
 
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ceg15

On the Ice
Joined
Dec 2, 2004
Stojko
Weiss
Kwan
Robinson
Wing and Lowe... it just seems like they were just always "there" and never really improving or going anywere.
 

Tonichelle

Idita-Rock-n-Roll
Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 27, 2003
Re: Weiss - he did seem to do better under the new system... unfortunately old habits die hard and he didn't just go for it and see where he ended up... he kept playing it safe, and that cost him a spot on the team (again from what we heard after the men's LP in STL)

I love Mike, am glad he stuck around otherwise I wouldn't have given a hoot about the men and would have missed out on Evan and Matt and Ryan and half a dozen others!
 
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slutskayafan21

Match Penalty
Joined
Mar 28, 2005
Tonichelle said:
Re: Weiss - he did seem to do better under the new system... unfortunately old habits die hard and he didn't just go for it and see where he ended up... he kept playing it safe, and that cost him a spot on the team (again from what we heard after the men's LP in STL)

I love Mike, am glad he stuck around otherwise I wouldn't have given a hoot about the men and would have missed out on Evan and Matt and Ryan and half a dozen others!

Do you really think they ever wanted Mike on the Olympic team this year though? I get the impression they would have put Weir and Lysacek on the team no matter what, and they pretty much had an idea who they wanted on the team and who they didnt.
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
I think "they" would have been OK with sending Weiss instead of Savoie if Weiss had skated better in the LP at nationals.

Mike was in second place after the short, but missed both of his triple Axels in the long, while Matt stepped up big time in the long (even beating Weir, who was third).

If anything, I think Savoie has been the forgotten step-child. I like Mike, but I was glad to see Matt get his day in the sun.

BTW, it has ocurred to me that there is a built-in assumption on this thread that a competitor ought to retire once he is "past his prime."

Why? Everyone starts out at the bottom, works his way up as high as he can go, then tapers off. If you are a little past your absolute peak, does that mean you can't skate at all any more?

Plushenko was "past his prime" last year, but he still won the Olympic gold medal.

MM :)
 

krenseby

Final Flight
Joined
Jan 8, 2006
Re:

dancindiva03 said:
Cohen. She was a disaster this year, internationally. Her best days are way behind her.

I actually wonder if Cohen would have done a lot better if Michelle was able to compete last season. If Michelle would have done well at nationals and at least one cheesefest or GP event, the media would have focused on her as an Olympic Gold contender as much as on Sasha. The pressure would have been off Sasha and she might have performed better at both Olympics and Worlds.
 

mzheng

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 16, 2005
ceg15 said:
Stojko
Weiss
Kwan
Robinson
Wing and Lowe... it just seems like they were just always "there" and never really improving or going anywere.
And Jeff.
It has been how many years since skated as senior? Yet still can't get his triple Axel consistant.
 

Eeyora

Final Flight
Joined
Aug 4, 2003
Eldredge
Weiss- Why didn't he leave in 02?
Stojko-Could have seen the last days of pro skating
Goebel- Sad to watch
Honda
Hughes- What did she prove by staying around for 03.

I would not put Michelle Kwan on the list. She gave three of her most memorable performances after 02. 2003 Nationals and Worlds as well as 2004 Nationals. While her only downfall was at 05 worlds. She matched the record for world titles won by American skaters and National Championship categories
 

ladybug

On the Ice
Joined
Jul 27, 2003
At 2005 Worlds, didn't Michelle come in third in the short and long program?

It was her qual. skate that did her in that year even though she had no previous COP experience. One bad skate is not a requirement for retirement.

At her Olympic test skate, the judges felt she could win gold with her programs. That says a lot for Michelle especially since she was nursing two injuries at the time and had very little time to prepare. If Michelle had skated a 6 triple LP at the Olympics (clean) and everyone else skated just as they did, she would be the Olympic Champion now.

Ladybug
 

Vash01

Medalist
Joined
Jul 31, 2003
UnsaneLily87 said:
Kwan.

I believe that after 2002, she should have retired. Just my opinion.

She won the 2003 world title (she would have missed out on her 5th world title had she retired after 2002). She won the world bronze in 2004. She narrowly missed the podium in 2005. It shows a downward trend, but certainly not enough to retire. Of course that is my opinion.

In 2006 she could have been challenging for the Olympic gold had her health been good.

Vash
 
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Vash01

Medalist
Joined
Jul 31, 2003
When skaters stick around past their prime, it is not always to win another gold medal (or another medal). Some of them do it for the love of the sport; they just love to compete. If their bodies are able to hold up enough to make the team, I don't see why they should not do it. Success is not always measured by medals. There is a lot of satisfaction in just skating two (or three) performances at a reasonably high level, particularly at advanced ages, or after coming back from injuries.

Vash
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
dancindiva03 said:
Cohen. She was a disaster this year, internationally. Her best days are way behind her.
Well, she won the U.S. championship and the 2006 Olympic silver medal, as almost everyone predicted she would. She outperformed Slutskaya, Suguri, Rochette, Meissner, Hughes, Meier, Kostner, Gedevanishvili, Liu, Leung, Poykio, Sokolova, Ando, Korpi, Liashenko, Sebestyen,...

Worlds? OK, that was one competition too many -- she ran out of gas, poor thing.

MM :)
 

iluvtodd

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 5, 2004
Country
United-States
Vash01 said:
When skaters stick around past their prime, it is not always to win another gold medal (or another medal). Some of them do it for the love of the sport; they just love to compete. If their bodies are able to hold up enough to make the team, I don't see why they should not do it. Success is not always measured by medals. There is a lot of satisfaction in just skating two (or three) performances at a reasonably high level, particularly at advanced ages, or after coming back from injuries.

Vash

Very well stated, Vash! :clap: :agree:
 

slutskayafan21

Match Penalty
Joined
Mar 28, 2005
ladybug said:
At 2005 Worlds, didn't Michelle come in third in the short and long program?

It was her qual. skate that did her in that year even though she had no previous COP experience. One bad skate is not a requirement for retirement.

At her Olympic test skate, the judges felt she could win gold with her programs. That says a lot for Michelle especially since she was nursing two injuries at the time and had very little time to prepare. If Michelle had skated a 6 triple LP at the Olympics (clean) and everyone else skated just as they did, she would be the Olympic Champion now.

Ladybug

I dont know about that, based on her scores from the Worlds in 2005 a clean skate from her was only about par with a clean skate by Suguri, you take away their mistakes and they are basicaly tied in each phase. If that is the case it would take alot more then a 6-triple effort to win the Olympics. Of course if she has improved her programs and levels since last year that changes perhaps, but it would take alot more from USFSA sources from a "private" session saying those things to convince me.
 

ceg15

On the Ice
Joined
Dec 2, 2004
mzheng said:
And Jeff.
It has been how many years since skated as senior? Yet still can't get his triple Axel consistant.

His triple axel was pretty consistent this season, except for a few times. I think it's just the quad holding him back...next season he's going to come out with even better programs and be stronger than ever.
 

evenstar

Final Flight
Joined
Mar 6, 2006
Alrighty, folks! I've done the math! Of course, it's not perfectly accurate, as the rules have changed slightly from '04-'05 season to '05-'06 season, but who cares?
I've taken Michelle Kwan's mistakes on her '05 worlds JUMPS only, and pretended she landed them, with +0 GOE. She lost 5.71 points on her jumps! Had she skated this way at the Olympics, and had everyone skated the way they did, she would be in fourth place with a total of 180.91 points. If you add the points she missed in the qualifying round, she'd be your silver medalist with 183.71. Sooo... I think had she been healthy, she'd be your OLYMPIC SILVER OR GOLD MEDALIST!! She (supposedly) studied the NJS a lot this summer, and I definitely believe that. Her Level 1 and 2 spins and footwork could've and probably would've been about level 3s and 4s.

So there you go!

(This is all hypothetical of course!)
 
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