What are the Japanese doing right? (or wrong)

Spun Silver · May 29, 2006

Kind of a followup to Joe on the decline of the Russians. The Japanese are now approaching domination in singles.

What on earth are they doing? I did hear one commentator say that with ladies at least the coaches insist that they approach every jump in every practice at full speed. Anything else?

Is there any downside to this? I'm not aware that their skaters are injured at a higher rate than others or have to retire earlier...

And then why not anything like the same success in pairs or ice dance?

Joesitz (RIP) · May 29, 2006

I don't think the Japanese want to be the best in the World. I think they want to be the best they can be. That attitude should produce many excellent skaters, and few sore losers.

It took a while for a Yuka Sato and a Takeshi Honda to come on the scene but they did! Eventually, there will be Pairs and Dance, too, imo.

Joe

attyfan · May 29, 2006

Spun Silver said:
...
Is there any downside to this? I'm not aware that their skaters are injured at a higher rate than others or have to retire earlier...
...

So far, I think the operative word is "aware" of any injuries sustained by Japanese skaters. So far, American fans can get word if a promising young American is injured, but the same doesn't apply for Japanese skaters (at least for American fans). If you think of the number of promising US skaters who got hurt before making it big on the international scene (Elizabeth Kwon is one, NNN as a singles skater is another), then it is plausible to think that there are a lot more injuries than we know about.

I also think it significant that, of the two strongly hyped "Japanese Junior Jumping Beans", one of them (Miki) has not yet fulfilled her potential on the senior level, and Mao is a comparative unknown. Fumie, OTOH, is not known for the fancy jumps, and, I heard that Shizuka didn't really start working on the fancy 3/3 until comparatively late in the game ('02/'03 or '03/'04)

soogar · May 29, 2006

Well Yukina Ota has suffered her fair share of injuries, as well as Midori Ito before she won her world title. Midori broke her leg doing a quad jump sometime in either '86 or '87 ( I remember reading that about her in 1989 so my memory is hazy).

The reason why the Japanese ladies are getting stronger is because of all the promotion of ladies skating in Japan. The Japanese ladies (the team as a whole) is enjoying the same attention that Bobek, Kwan and Lipinski enjoyed in 1998 (ie the Campbell's soup cans featuring all three ladies and the constant touting of them as the best American team ever). Shizuka, Fumie and Miki were hyped to the gills this year and now Mao and her sister are also getting a lot of attention.

krenseby · May 30, 2006

soogar said:
Well Yukina Ota has suffered her fair share of injuries, as well as Midori Ito before she won her world title. Midori broke her leg doing a quad jump sometime in either '86 or '87 ( I remember reading that about her in 1989 so my memory is hazy).

The reason why the Japanese ladies are getting stronger is because of all the promotion of ladies skating in Japan. The Japanese ladies (the team as a whole) is enjoying the same attention that Bobek, Kwan and Lipinski enjoyed in 1998 (ie the Campbell's soup cans featuring all three ladies and the constant touting of them as the best American team ever). Shizuka, Fumie and Miki were hyped to the gills this year and now Mao and her sister are also getting a lot of attention.

I guess we can conclude that Bobek 98 was like today's Miki Ando: overhyped and underperforming. Why she was featured on the Campbell's Soup Cans with the other two ladies is simply beyond my understanding.

MKFSfan · May 30, 2006

I'm pretty sure Shiz was landing 3/3's even way back in 1998. Didn't she land one in the SP in the Nagano Olympics?

Mathman · May 30, 2006

krenseby said:
I guess we can conclude that Bobek 98 was like today's Miki Ando: overhyped and underperforming. Why she was featured on the Campbell's Soup Cans with the other two ladies is simply beyond my understanding.

I think it was like Soogar said, they were trying to promote the U.S. team as a whole, rather than one particular athlete.

At that time, Bobek was a past U.S. champion and world bronze medalist (sort of like Sarah Hughes heading into Salt Lake City, except for the U.S. championship part.) In fact, the U.S. ladies team comprised the 1995 U.S. champ, the 1996 (and '98) U.S. champ and the 1997 U.S. champ.

BTW, that soup can was the first time that Campbell's had featured a woman athlete. I wonder if they will come out with a Kimmie this year?

MM

waxel · May 30, 2006

Promoting the skaters doesn't offer an explantion to the question posed in this thread as to why Japanese single skaters seem to be out-performing many of their international counterparts. Apparantly skating conditions are dire there, forcing many elite skaters to train during crowded public sessions (which of course is the reason so many train in the US and Canada).

R.D. · May 30, 2006

Now with a ladies OLY champ I think there is a lot of added motivation in young Japanese skaters. I think we'll continue to see great ones pop up from Japan.

IcyBallerina · May 30, 2006

The female skaters from Japan who are rising now were about 4 and younger when Midori Ito was famous with her triple axel, in the late eighties and early nineties. From what I hear, the Japanese, like every other nation in the world except possibly Fiji, in general have a fascination with celebrities.

If a whole lot of mothers and daughters were inspired by a sports icon, you have a larger pool of young skaters, increasing the odds that some of them will be successful.

Add to that the facts that , Asian bodies are generally small and slender, and culturally have an excellent work ethic, and you have a real time bomb.

R.D. · May 30, 2006

the Japanese in general have a fascination with celebrities.

I think it's safe to say we Americans and many Europeans are the same way, too. Just go to the store and look at the magazines around...

IcyBallerina · May 30, 2006

Very true, Red Dog! I won't get started on the absurdity of celebrity culture, but it is definitely present in the U.S. as well.

Joesitz (RIP) · May 30, 2006

IcyBallerina said:
Very true, Red Dog! I won't get started on the absurdity of celebrity culture, but it is definitely present in the U.S. as well.

You should read the London tabloids and the German magazines. RD is correct, it is the entire world except we don't hear so much from Fiji,

Joe

IcyBallerina · May 30, 2006

Post edited to reflect comments.

Anyway- it's really just a theory to explain what seems like a dramatic increase inthe number of internationally competitive Japanese women.

UnsaneLily87 · May 30, 2006

Joesitz said:
You should read the London tabloids and the German magazines. RD is correct, it is the entire world except we don't hear so much from Fiji,

Joe

Hahah London is insane! You should see the smear campaign the S*n has mounted against Pete Doherty!

But yeah, I think that Midori Ito being a role model to many young mothers has helped. Plus, Yuka Sato coming on teh scene when she did...

soogar · May 30, 2006

waxel said:
Promoting the skaters doesn't offer an explantion to the question posed in this thread as to why Japanese single skaters seem to be out-performing many of their international counterparts. Apparantly skating conditions are dire there, forcing many elite skaters to train during crowded public sessions (which of course is the reason so many train in the US and Canada).

Well promotion and attention are certainly strong incentives for strong competitive performances and the Japanese team as a whole is very strong. The federation also appears to be doing a good job in getting overseas help for its talent (ie Shiz going to Callaghan and Tarasova, etc)

lisadotdash · May 30, 2006

soogar said:
Well promotion and attention are certainly strong incentives for strong competitive performances and the Japanese team as a whole is very strong. The federation also appears to be doing a good job in getting overseas help for its talent (ie Shiz going to Callaghan and Tarasova, etc)

Well, I may be bringing up things I'm not qualified to speak on however, I think it's like when the Japanese economy was booming in the 80s, they were buying up city blocks in mid-town Manhattan, manufacturing everything that was cool (remember they took the blame for Yamaguchi's lack of endorsements because we were so sick of the Japanese). It seemed the Japanese had a better way of doing everything. Well, then they made a bunch of HUGE mistakes re: their banking and economic decisions and their economy has been struggling ever since, save the Toyota and a few other products. Well, now in the world of figureskating, again, they've observed and learned from us and the eastern bloc countries, etc. saying, "that looks easy". So, yes it looks like they've got their little Camrys and Tundras jumping around on the ice. Everything will work out in the end and hopefully they'll say, "The US and Ukraine made it look so easy!"

Mathman · May 30, 2006

IcyBallerina said:
...like every other nation in the world except possibly Fiji, in general have a fascination with celebrities.

What? The Fijians don't idolize golfer V.J. Singh?

Soogar said:
The [Japanese] federation also appears to be doing a good job in getting overseas help for its talent (ie Shiz going to Callaghan and Tarasova, etc)

Yes, so much so that they overspent their international support budget to the tune of a million dollars or so, causing the president of the federation to resign in disgrace when the accountants showed up.

MM

soogar · May 30, 2006

Mathman said:
What? The Fijians don't idolize golfer V.J. Singh?Yes, so much so that they overspent their international support budget to the tune of a million dollars or so, causing the president of the federation to resign in disgrace when the accountants showed up.

MM

I read on FSU that the Japanese Fed doesn't even pay for that overseas training. Shizuka's parents said that they were the ones footing the bills for the coaches and ice time. What I don't understand is how the federation can force a skater to switch coaches as Shizuka alleged that it did when she had to leave Callaghan.

Spun Silver · May 30, 2006

Oh yeah, the Japanese Federation. The mystery deepens. If they have policies that are helping to produce this phenomenon, I'm not clear what they are.

BTW, I don't know if my initial post was clear but I don't see the Japanese domination as a problem at all. I am not very nationalistic and to see all those incredible skaters is pure gift, I don't care where they're from.

I just hope never to learn that all these children were separated from their families at age 5 in order to make great skaters out of them.

What are the Japanese doing right? (or wrong)

Spun Silver

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