Biggest Judging errors in the past | Page 9 | Golden Skate

Biggest Judging errors in the past

gk_891

Rinkside
Joined
Jun 10, 2006
I thought the ice-dance event at the 2001 Worlds was judged very questionably. Although they were a little cautious at times, Anissina & Peizerat should've beaten Fusar-Poli & Margaglio by a mile. The Italians just didn't have the content that was necessary to be world champions while the French team had an amazingly difficult FD. I also thought Drobiazko & Vanagas should've medalled by I guess bringing back the same program from the year before will win you no favours with the judges.

Although they were an unknown team at the time, I strongly disagreed with Denkova & Staviyski's 10th place finish in 2001. I'm a huge fan of their Xotica FD from that year (I think it's an avant-garde masterpiece and it's one of my favourite programs to watch) and I thought they should've finished ahead of many teams. In fact, I may be crazy enough to say that they deserved a medal but I guess they were just didn't have enough of a reputation to get one at that time.

Although Usova & Zhulin were very passionate and dramatic, they just didn't do it for me technically and I actually thought that a young Grishuk & Platov should've finished ahead of them at the 1992 Olympics, especially in the compulsory and OD portions of the competition. G&P also had a very interesting FD that year that was quite difficult. On the other hand, U&Z did a FD to Vivaldi's Four Seasons that year and it was beautiful but easier than the other couples from the Unified Team. In fact, my final results would've been: 1) K&P 2) G&P 3) U&Z 4) D&D 5) whoever. I know many will strongly disagree with me and that's fine but to my eye, I thought G&P had the edge over U&Z.
 

tdnuva

On the Ice
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
gk_891 said:
Concerning the 1994 Olympics, I would've had Grishuk & Platov in first, Torvill & Dean in second, and Usova & Zhulin in third. Even though G&P separated on a few occassions for longer than what was allowed, I thought their program just looked very winning, especially in comparison to the strict ballroom classics that T&D performed. Although T&D had a very very difficult program, I was really disappointed in the lack of originality since they took old moves from their previous programs (as well as the ones that Chris choreographed for the Duchesnays). G&P had an exuberance and freshness that was very appealing and I thought the technical difficulty in their FD was very underrated. Sure, it wasn't quite as difficult as Torvill & Dean's FD but I thought they had a better program in general in addition to better speed and attack (as well as line).
Sorry - but this is ice dance and not speed skating. And even in those days there were rules and guidelines what should get which marks. Speed alone is no criterium. Especially cause it usually is achieved by lack of other elements like connecting steps besides the very simple ones. Running next to each other or dancing in one place separated from each other is not what should be awarded high marks. G&P had their qualities, but this rock'n roll number - as you stated yourself - was rather easy, so no wonder they could run around the rink.
 

gk_891

Rinkside
Joined
Jun 10, 2006
tdnuva said:
Sorry - but this is ice dance and not speed skating. And even in those days there were rules and guidelines what should get which marks. Speed alone is no criterium. Especially cause it usually is achieved by lack of other elements like connecting steps besides the very simple ones. Running next to each other or dancing in one place separated from each other is not what should be awarded high marks. G&P had their qualities, but this rock'n roll number - as you stated yourself - was rather easy, so no wonder they could run around the rink.

I never said that G&P had a rather easy program. I said that the technical difficulty of their FD was underrated. Although it wasn't as difficult as T&D's FD, it still was quite difficult IMO and they still skated it with speed and attack and that should be admired. Personally, I thought none of the top 3 couples had particularly memorable FDs but out of those 3, I thought G&P had the winning program. They also had tremendous technique and precision, an amazingly athletic strength of stroke that really allowed them to fly over the ice, wonderful edge quality, and beautiful posture (my apologies, I guess I'm repeating myself from a previous post!). For me, both the FD's from Torvill & Dean and Usova & Zhulin were big disappointments. I thought T&D skated beautifully but their strict ballroom classics approach bored me a bit and I thought the way they took old moves from their programs (and the ones that Dean choreographed for the Duchesnays) looked like they were a little desperate to get points. To my eyes, their program seemed to consist of old tricks hastily put together. As for U&Z, their strength was in their drama and firey passion but I thought they picked an unbelievable dud for their FD that was not only silly but also pretty sluggish, especially towards the end. Of course, this is all my opinion but I strongly stand by it.
 

Zuranthium

Match Penalty
Joined
Mar 30, 2006
From now on, there shall be no more talking about ice dancing or pairs skating in threads I create. That's how much I don't care. Okay?

:sheesh:
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
Hey Z, if you don't like ice dancing you're missing half the fun of skating, and about ninety per cent of the judging controversies. Plus the lion's share of the gossip.

MM ;)
 

attyfan

Custom Title
Medalist
Joined
Mar 1, 2004
I'm not sure if this is the kind of "judging error" that this thread was intended to address, but another one I didn't like was the judge who issued the injunction that let Tonya Harding go to the '94 Olys, instead of Michelle Kwan. IMO, going to the Olys is a privilege, not a right.
 

Zuranthium

Match Penalty
Joined
Mar 30, 2006
Mathman said:
Hey Z, if you don't like ice dancing you're missing half the fun of skating, and about ninety per cent of the judging controversies. Plus the lion's share of the gossip.

MM ;)

That's alright I don't need gossip. I just like great skating. :biggrin:
 

SeaniBu

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 19, 2006
Zuranthium said:
From now on, there shall be no more talking about ice dancing or pairs skating in threads I create. That's how much I don't care. Okay?

:sheesh:
:laugh:

I wish there was that kind of control, but let's face it it is everybody's thread after it is posted.

ElvisStojkofan said:
For me the biggest judging error was for the 2006 Olympic ladies long program scores, specially Fumie Suguri scores.

:clap: There had been talk about that in the thread earlier, and it doesn't apear that it would have changed the standings, bummer:frown: Those were two great proformances, notable her pres in the SP - Love that smile:love: :love: :love: :love: half way through. But the LP had a prob with a double loop (I think)that looked kinda damaging with out the other elemnts that the competition had she didn't in her's. It is kinda funny that her Bielmanns - if they classify as such - only had 2-3 rotations, I don't think that counts as anything but a trans move??? I don't think!! Maybe that is just a "catch foot move? But the possition of her hand under her chin was gorgious!:love: :love: :love:

Anyone feel free to correct me if I am wrong - please. And if I need to start figuring out which abbreviations to use to make since to every one you can tell me where to go - oooh that is a loaded comment - to find out how to use them properly.

ElvisStojkofan, I went to your site and didn't see anything about Fumie???:cry: Good info on Elvis, who in the heck could beat that guy at Karate - Mr Mieggi?:laugh: Way to get sivler ES!!!:clap: Definitely fits the "stud" category!
 
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ElvisStojkofan

Rinkside
Joined
Apr 23, 2005
seanibu said:
:laugh:

ElvisStojkofan, I went to your site and didn't see anything about Fumie???:cry: Good info on Elvis, who in the heck could beat that guy at Karate - Mr Mieggi?:laugh: Way to get sivler ES!!!:clap: Definitely fits the "stud" category!


Maybe when I have more time I'll add something about her. I can't wait to see her this new skating season. :)
 

julietvalcouer

Final Flight
Joined
Sep 10, 2005
Zuranthium said:
That's alright I don't need gossip. I just like great skating. :biggrin:

Then why are you watching Ladies'? :p (Especially these days--neither great nor even interesting. Wake me up when one of them does something original.)

Seriously, though, welcome to the internet--starting a thread doesn't guarantee control over topic drift. No one cares you don't care. Especially since when it comes to questionable judging, Pairs and Ice Dance are kinda the place to be.

Incidentaly--ITA with tdnuva. Ice dancing isn't speed skating or freestyle, come to that. While speed and 'attack' can be important, flow is more so. Also quality of edges and lines and the ability to skate very close together while doing intricate footwork. My placings would have been Usova/Zhulin, Torvill/Dean, and Grishuk/Platov.
 

SeaniBu

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 19, 2006
ElvisStojkofan said:
Maybe when I have more time I'll add something about her. I can't wait to see her this new skating season. :)

I hope Lori is "aloud" or feels it necessary to "westernize" her choreography, yet I want the "Asian Lady" to stay prevalent as well. I guess score better in pres, connect to audiences and still make me happy - I am so torn:laugh:
 

slutskayafan21

Match Penalty
Joined
Mar 28, 2005
Vash01 said:
IMO the biggest judging error was at the 2006 Olympics, with Zhang & Zhang winning a silver over the other two Chinese pairs, when they should have been either disqualified or should have received a HUGE deduction for their time off the ice.

Vash

Not only that but their PCS were the highest they had received all year, and even forgetting the delaly to suggest that was their best performance to that program all year is ludricious, and their PCS was virtualy tied with Pang/Tong's far more musical and flowing performance. Obviously the Zhangs would be tenative and mechanical after returning to their program, who wouldnt be after the collsion, but their PCS certainly did not reflect that, their step out of the final throw was only graded a total of -1.00, it should have been a -2.00 since she didnt hang onto her landing edge for even a second, alot of the lifts near the end barely got around and got +GOE as well.
 

lil lion 816

Rinkside
Joined
Jul 29, 2003
DORISPULASKI said:
Blumberg and Seibert were badly underscored at the 1984 Olympics. They skated all their programs beautifully, but one judge decided singlehandedly and with no warning at all that their Scherazade music was not suitable for ice dance. No judge had complained about this all season, and suddenly at the Olympics they ended up off the podium because of it. Oddly, they placed 3rd at 1984 Worlds with a flawed free dance.

I agree with this. I read about the "problem" one of the judges had with their music. At the time, I couldn't for the life of me figure out how they lost to the Russians. :scratch: Of course I was only starting to watch skating seriously at that time and didn't know about the goshdarned politicks...



Tim Wood, 1968 Olympics. He lost 5/4, but one judge had the wrong score held up, something crazed like 0.6 instead of 6.0. The judge tried to change it, but it was not allowed.

I haven't had the chance to see all of his performance ( I hope to someday!) but I've read a lot about this and think that this was definitely a situation which called for a review and probably an overturning of the original score!

FP/M should definitely not have won the CD at the 2006 Olympics, just for Maurizio's bad leg line alone.

I definitely agree with that - they had perhaps the "spirit" of the dance above the waist, but looking at the leg lines, well - they should have been behind several other teams, not in first place after the CD.

Another error in judging I felt was when Denise Biellman was placed too low in figures to be able to catch up and win a medal (at least) in 1980. IMO, she was way ahead of the rest of the field - and even ahead of her time, I'd say.
 

gk_891

Rinkside
Joined
Jun 10, 2006
julietvalcouer said:
Then why are you watching Ladies'? :p (Especially these days--neither great nor even interesting. Wake me up when one of them does something original.)

Seriously, though, welcome to the internet--starting a thread doesn't guarantee control over topic drift. No one cares you don't care. Especially since when it comes to questionable judging, Pairs and Ice Dance are kinda the place to be.

Incidentaly--ITA with tdnuva. Ice dancing isn't speed skating or freestyle, come to that. While speed and 'attack' can be important, flow is more so. Also quality of edges and lines and the ability to skate very close together while doing intricate footwork. My placings would have been Usova/Zhulin, Torvill/Dean, and Grishuk/Platov.

Grishuk & Platov also had beautiful flow as well. Look at their Starlight Waltz CD that year and other dances they did throughout their career. I thought their FD in 1994 was also skated with amazing flow in addition to speed and attack because although it was very fast and skated at break-neck speed, there was no jostling for position and they always skated with a pointed toe. And they also had amazing edges and abilities to skate close together while doing intricate footwork. If you look beyond those few times of illegal separations (yes, they did some other stuff as well in that program), you'll see some amazingly difficult footwork. Many people seem to think that Grishuk & Platov only excelled at speed but IMO, they were the total package. They had tremendous speed and attack coupled with beautiful posture, line, pointed toes, fluidity, edges, and technique. I think that helped them with their versatility because they could do any type of dance.
 

SeaniBu

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 19, 2006
ElvisStojkofan said:
Maybe when I have more time I'll add something about her. I can't wait to see her this new skating season. :)

I said a while back about Lori having some freedom or need to westernize, and now that I have been watching what Nicoles and Carroll did with MK in 95, I wonder if Lori is just missing getting more of Frank's influence.:unsure:
 
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