Brian Joubert will come to Toronto

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/LAC.20060608.BROWNING08/TPStory/TPSports/OtherSports/

Excerpt: "French figure-skating star Brian Joubert is taking his first step toward the Vancouver Olympics in 2010 by turning to four-time world champion Kurt Browning [for help with choreography]....

"'On my mind is, if I'm Brian Joubert, how do I compete against Lambiel?' Browning said yesterday. 'Technically, I think Joubert is better in the jump category, but Stéphane has got him in spins, and right now, he's got him in footwork and overall musicality.

"'I think not this year, but somebody like Joubert can improve enough that in four years he can be competitive against Lambiel. So how to get that first step of improvement into him is my first task.'"

(Edited by Mathman -- For the full text of this copyrighted article, please click on the link.)

THIS COULD REALLY WORK. I'll be interested to see the results.

However -- since his last couple of programs haven't been that great despite working with both Alexei Yagudin and Lucinda Ruh, I am going to withold any further excitement until I actually see what he puts down on the ice next season. :sheesh:

I hope that Kurt is a little more successful than Yags was in helping Brian to find his own style. His comments seem to indicate that he's got a good take on Brian's abilities and weaknesses. I look forward to seeing the results.
Have to disagree with you slightly, JonnyCoop. I thought Lucinda did wonders for his spins this last season; and even though he was using his old Matrix program it still looked fresh. And a World silver medal is difficult to argue with.
There's still lots of room for improvement, but I think he still has the potential to do that. Joubert is never going to be "Mr. Debonair" out there on the ice, despite looking like a male model. And that's just fine with me.
Geez, between the Lysacek/Weir match-up here in the US, the Takahashi/Oda rivalry in Japan and the European Lambiel/Joubert struggle for dominance, this skating fan should be quite the happy girl over the next few years!
I can't wait till October!
xoxo
Rave

Well Kurt can certainly improve Joubert's musicality and artistry. This maybe
just what Joubert needs. Good luck to him. Thanks for posting.

JonnyCoop said:

THIS COULD REALLY WORK. I'll be interested to see the results.

However -- since his last couple of programs haven't been that great despite working with both Alexei Yagudin and Lucinda Ruh, I am going to withold any further excitement until I actually see what he puts down on the ice next season. :sheesh:

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To give him his dues since working with Lucinda Ruh his spins are unrecognisable - they used to be downright awful - worse than Pluschenko's and now they're fast and centered and down slow down as much as anyone else (bar lambiel) when he changes edges in the spins.

Ant

kittyjake5 said:

Well Kurt can certainly improve Joubert's musicality and artistry. This maybe
just what Joubert needs. Good luck to him. Thanks for posting.

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I don't know about that though, Kurt did (only in my opinion of course!) nothing for Carolina Kostner - i've found her programs for the past two seasons pretty boring, childish and hammy not very musical at all...either she's not listening or he's not that good a choreographer for working out strengths and weaknesses.

Ant

Good point about the spins, they ARE better than they used to be; I think part of my thing on that was if one works with Lucinda Ruh, I expect them to be able to SPIN like Lucinda Ruh, and that is not a fair thing to ask of anybody..... [Insert red-faced vaguely emberassed smily here]

I think a lot of these collaborations depend on the basic choreographic/music sense of the skater involved anyway; if you ain't got it you ain't got it and in some cases it just CAN'T be taught. (And IMHO, Yoshie Onda ain't never gonna have it) And Lori Nichol was only able to do SO much for Tim Goebel, after all.....:sheesh:

JonnyCoop said:

since his last couple of programs haven't been that great despite working with both Alexei Yagudin and Lucinda Ruh, I am going to withold any further excitement until I actually see what he puts down on the ice next season. :sheesh:

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In respect to both Yagudin and Ruh, they worked with him on techniques and such; neither choreographed a program for him. I think the comparisons for success in this is unequal. I do agree with many others that Brian's spins were SO much better since working with Lucinda Ruh.

I think this may be a fabulous pairing, in personality alone. I believe great things could come from this partnership. And having had the distinct privilege of meeting Kurt Browning and talking with him for a while at last season's Skate America competition, I think he deserves great credit for his choreography skills.

now I'm going to have to watch Joubert with interest... *sigh* what we diehard Kurt fans do for our guy lol

seriously though this could amount to something good... Kurt's had some great programs he's choreographed for people... so we'll see...


Re: Tim and Lori - his SP in Portland was stunning... wish he'd kept it...

Tonichelle said:

now I'm going to have to watch Joubert with interest... *sigh* what we diehard Kurt fans do for our guy lol

Re: Tim and Lori - his SP in Portland was stunning... wish he'd kept it...

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Oh, Toni, poor you...having to watch Brian Joubert! That dripping sound you hear is my heart, and it's bleeding just for you.
And you're absolutely correct about Tim's 2005 short program - it's the best I ever saw him skate.
Rave

It seemed to me that Yagudin had the one 'macho' style which he did brilliantly in the 2002 Olys. I think he tried to give that style to Brian who, imo, is a metronome skater without anything specific in the style range. Just didn't work.

Now Kurt has all that rhythm in his skating. Whether he can impart that on Brian remains to be seen.

While Brian has improved in many ways as seen by his Calgary performance, he still looks a bit stiff in the 'flow' department. That worked for the Matrix. However, his jumping is impressive and if that is where the judges are going, Brian should do well with or without Kurt, or Alexei. But's let's see how it goes.

It's a lot of work to impart rhythm on a skater who doesn't have it. Tim Goebel also has trouble with rhythm, imo.

I think in this thread I disagree with everyone

I don't think Yagudin's overall style is macho. I think it's quite lyrical, apart from the footwork, particularly in the fluidity, flexibility, and posture of his upper body. If I were doing figure skating versions of Russian opera, I would cast him as Lensky in Eugene Onegin. I don't even think Yagudin's footwork was macho, but I think it was precise and sometimes light, and not in the rather stomping style that Joubert brought to it.

I think Joubert is quite musical and has more precise rhythmic interpretation than Lambiel, although Lambiel has improved greatly in the last few seasons. There's a part in Matrix where Joubert is following the slow rhythm like he's following a heartbeat, and without any preparation, switches to turns right on the fast rhythm. I think he's chosen particularly horrible music for his LP's since 2004 on which his talent is wasted, and because he insists on a very upright, uptight style which he seems to think is masculine and powerful -- think Gary Beacom in "I'm Your Man" -- he limits the color and contrast he could bring to a program.

Perhaps having the beautiful ballerina wife who could give Miss France a run for her money and a kid will convince Joubert to trust that Browning won't try to turn him feminine by adding a little contrast and variety to his programs. Perhaps Browning can convince Joubert that incorporating dance qualities -- and maybe even taking a ballet class or two -- will help him maximize his talents. Maybe Browning can introduce Joubert to Guillaume Cote, the tall, gorgeous, eminently swoon-worthy dancer at National Ballet of Canada, and he will expand his horizons.

One thing that I'm finding very refreshing is how Browning is approaching this as a long-term plan. Likewise, according to Weir, Marina Anissina only agreed to choreography Weir's long program after telling him that she will work him very hard, and that he's got a lot of room for improvement. I think it's about time that "quick fix" mentality is tossed for the big picture.

Ravyn Rant said:

Oh, Toni, poor you...having to watch Brian Joubert! That dripping sound you hear is my heart, and it's bleeding just for you.
And you're absolutely correct about Tim's 2005 short program - it's the best I ever saw him skate.
Rave

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hey!

gotta wonder if that nationals SP in 05 was all the kid had left in him... it was the only glimpse we got into seeing just how amazing a skater Tim could become... and in just a couple minutes it was done... :'(

Joubert will never be a great artistic talent no matter who he hires to choreograph for him. He is a great jumper, who skates with command, security, and power, when he is on though, and when he hits all his jumps and skates with that command he will do very well. However he will never be a great artistic talent.

He is back skating very well and will probably contend the next 2 years. However his career peak has probably already occured. I doubt it will get better for him then the 04 World title and 04 European gold. He will be lucky to ever win a Worlds if Lambiel stays healthy, Oda fulfills his potential, Lysacek gets a consistent quad and continues to be consistent enough to take advantage of others screwing up like he has so far, Weir maybe learning how to skate a COP-long program with a quad of course. I also doubt he will be on the podium at the next Olympics with the skaters I mentioned, and possably more to come by then, even if Plushenko does not return.

I have to admit I'm skeptical. Browning is the best dancer on ice I've ever seen (in men's). Joubert, um, not so much.

I agree with Jonny Coup and Joe -- rhythm is hard to learn if you don't have any (look at Brian Boitano, for instance).

Well it worked some years ago for Brian Boitano when he came to Sandra Bezic before the Calgary 88 Olympics. Brian Boitano ended up improving his artistic side thanks to Sandra and he won the gold medal. Mind you I still think Brian Orser is more artistic than Brian Boitano.

This is a smart move on Brian Joubert's part. Why not consult the best? I am certainly still going to be in Jeff Buttle's corner, but it will be interesting to see what Kurt can do with Brian Joubert artistically. I hated his Matrix program and have never been inspired by his skating in general. He is a good jumper. I hope Kurt can also talk him into wearing better costumes. I find the French skaters always go for such outrageous get ups.

Go Kurt and Brian!!!

Mathman said:

I have to admit I'm skeptical. Browning is the best dancer on ice I've ever seen (in men's). Joubert, um, not so much.

I agree with Jonny Coup and Joe -- rhythm is hard to learn if you don't have any (look at Brian Boitano, for instance).

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But Brian Boitano still developed style... he might not have rhythm but he certainly has presence and I think Kurt can help Joubert a lot in that regard.

I will be watching the feet, in disbelief, Kurt helping the French, be something neat.

Joubert has to let it happen aqnd give into the music. With Yasgudin it was more of an imitation than anything else.

There is something about Joubert that I like. It seems to be more Brian the person. Brian the skater still needs a lot of work but I really think he can do it. If Kurt can bring out Joubert the person into his skating and improve on his FW and a few other things, I think he can be a contender for Worlds. Maybe not 07 but he may be for 08.

Good luck to Brian and Kurt. They are both first class people in my eyes.

Ladybug