Page 5 of 13 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 LastLast
Results 61 to 75 of 186

Thread: ISU Grand Prix Assignments 2006-2007

  1. #61
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Detroit, Michigan
    Posts
    28,084
    Quote Originally Posted by Joesitz
    Oh how the rules can bend when there is some interest for the host federations. Is Piseev behind all this? How come the age of a skater (think Mao) is a hard fast rule not to be broken in qualifying for the Worlds and Olympics, but this GPSeries which does has a set of rules can just be willy nilly bent to serve a particular host federation.
    I don't understand, Joe. What Hockeyfan said, those are the hard and fast rules for GP selection.

    What rule do you think is being bent?

  2. #62
    Custom Title Joesitz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    New York City
    Posts
    20,185
    think that aside from Hughes/Liang/Cizney, the whole group seems so Junior-ish to me. Their skating all looks the same. Everything is choreographed to the point that it’s not believable. I don’t know how to explain it, but when I see all of the above skate w/exception to Bebe and Emily, the moves are forced and well, not honest.
    This is something one has to see in the new season. I believe skaters can improve to the best of their ability each year they stay in competition. That is why I would never predict a World's winner before seeing what the GPseries is telling me.

    We'll soon know how well these youngsters develop the finesse of a truly senior lady.

    Joe

  3. #63
    All Hail Queen Yu-Na!!!!!! SailorGalaxia518's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Massena, NY
    Posts
    3,756
    Wow nice to see that some of the people have not retired. Like Kevin Van Der Perren and Petrova and Tikhonov

    Drobiazko and Vanagas are hanging around still which is still cool to see. We still need great competition in dance (not like the one in Torino, crash and burn).

    Yu-Na Kim, Mao Asada and Kimmie Meissner should be the new "it" athletes for the Ladies.

    To me Mao Asada is considered Japan's prodigy, and should live up to her role.

    It's going to be a great season, The Chinese are going to rock pairs but Petrova and Tikhonov should prove quite a challenge

  4. #64
    Custom Title Joesitz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    New York City
    Posts
    20,185
    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman
    I don't understand, Joe. What Hockeyfan said, those are the hard and fast rules for GP selection.

    What rule do you think is being bent?
    No problem. I was just pointing out how powerful the rule for the age limitation is in the Worlds and Olys and how specious the rules are for assigning GP competitors. Check out Chuckm's post:

    Amanda Nylader received just one assignment, at NHK. She was 17th at Worlds, Tugba Karademir was 18th, and Arina Martinova was 19th. #15 and #16, Yan Liu and Idora Hegel, each got two assignments; then Amanda and Tugba each got one, while Arina got two (Arina was picked by CoR, of course, and she got a second assignment at NHK).
    I'm sure there are more of these as examples of how the host countries can get their stables moving despite the generalized rules of the GP series.

    Joe

  5. #65
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Posts
    7,512
    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman
    I don't understand, Joe. What Hockeyfan said, those are the hard and fast rules for GP selection.

    What rule do you think is being bent?
    The rules are more flexible for the host countries, it seems. According to the rules, after each federation picks its own skaters, the seeds are selected. Then after the top 12 at Worlds have received 2 assignments, those who finished 13th-24th are assigned IN ORDER of their finish. So we had:

    13 Mira LEUNG (CAN) - got two events (one from SC)
    14 Elene GEDEVANISHVILI - got two events (note: she was also #20 on the Seasons Best list)
    15 Idora HEGEL - got two events
    16 Yan LIU - got two events (one from CoC)
    17 Amanda NYLANDER - got one event
    18 Tugba KARADEMIR - got one event
    19 Arina MARTINOVA - got two events (one from CoR).

    The problem is that skaters from host countries can be assigned an event as a host skater, while non-host skaters do not start out with this advantage. The rule should be administered in such a way that if a skater has been selected as a host skater, then that should be counted as the first go-round, like Amanda's and Tugba's first assignment. SECOND assignments should be subject to the same set of rules as the first, and be assigned IN ORDER OF PLACEMENT at Worlds.

    Under that scenario, Nylander would receive a 2nd event, not Martinova.

  6. #66
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Detroit, Michigan
    Posts
    28,084
    OK. So you are saying that the rules themselves are unfair, not that anyone is breaking or bending them. Got it.

    To me, it looks like a case of "money talks." The sponsors who put up the dough for these affairs want what they want -- some popular home grown skaters to bring in the crowd. I guess this is the ISU's way of bowing to economic reality.

    Yet another disadvantage to skaters whose national federations lack big-time clout.

  7. #67
    Skater Girl
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    CA
    Posts
    490
    I really need to get to SA - Kiira Korpi and the Kerrs who I think could medal in both of their events! WHEEE!

  8. #68
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Posts
    7,512
    It's the way the rules are written and applied. The rules don't address 2nd assignments, other than saying that the top 12 at Worlds are guaranteed two. I believe that second assignments should be handed out according to the rules for first assignments, and the host self picks should be considered a "first assignment".

    Another loophole is the lack of specificity about withdrawals and substitutions. Along with the GP assignments, the ISU should publish a list of substitutes in the order they will be considered. The list should also specify which skaters are eligible for a 2nd event. Of course, we all know that certain events (CoR and CoC) require a long lead time for obtaining visas, which makes them impossible for some skaters. But at least there would be some element of fairness.

  9. #69
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    544
    Petrova & Tikhonov... dear God... retire already.

    Katy Taylor needs more dance classes. I agree she is reminiscent of Tara... in the bad way. Emily Hughes frequently looks ungainly and her on-ice appearance really suffers from her "healthy" build. (Sorry if that's unkind... but it is what it is). Would love to see Bebe really blossom this year (but at what point does potential remain just that?).

    Anyhow, glad to see this first "official" harbinger of the upcoming season.

  10. #70
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Posts
    2,420
    Quote Originally Posted by anything_for_skating
    when will we know junior entries?
    The JGP Technical Announcement (link is posted in the 2006-07 JGP Forum here) says that entries/names are due at least 31 days prior to the start of each of the 8 Jr. Grand Prix competitions. Last year, the JGP entries were usually published by the ISU about one month before each competition. As far as I know, only USA so far has made public their initial JGP assignments (6 ladies, 8 men, 5 pair and 5 dance teams) on their website.

  11. #71
    MY TVC 1 5 SeaniBu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Watching the Wheels
    Posts
    4,984

    "NostoBu"

    I have wanted to say this from the beginning but was afraid. And I am kicking myself for not saying ealier that I didn't think Sasha would be in there - I could have been right about at least ONE thing:boohoo: Well, this still isn't a definite list from what I gather anyway. And all this is inspired by listening to you "guy" anyway.
    Now that I have reviewed who did get "selected" - whether they go or not..... Others are coming close so I might as well - with a doge behind the couch. I hardly ever predict (maybe never on the boards) - so humor me, please.

    This will be a Break or Make for Miki. I have a feeling she will make a good show and redeem her Olys. If not she will be married, the "most eligible," or turn out to be a good actor by the beginning of next year.

    Carolina, will redeem. And she will have the most "Fashion runway" looking outfit (I know some love the pink dress conversations ). She will stand at least once on the podium.

    Bebe and Katy aren't ready and I have a feeling they will not look to good - HOPE I'm wrong!

    Joanne, well still waiting...and have a feeling I still will after.

    Sara M, Yoishi, Yakari and Alyssa will make a more notable standing to the general public.

    I will be sick of the "sister" play-up in the media, even though it is pretty cool.

    Fumie, Mao, Yu-Na, Elena and Kimmie will be shining stars. The ones to beat. - that is kinda a give me - but I think Fumie will be on the podium both times and at least one will be gold.

    Elene G, is going to blow some minds on how far she has come along and take at least a podium spot at China.

    "NostoBu" has spoken.

    Ah that feels better - well now until I am proven totally wrong
    Last edited by SeaniBu; 06-26-2006 at 05:51 PM.

  12. #72
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Posts
    7,512
    That's what I remember too, Sylvia. We didn't see the names for the first JGP event until about 4 weeks before the competition. And by the time the event actually started, a lot of the names had changed, anyway.

  13. #73
    Custom Title Joesitz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    New York City
    Posts
    20,185
    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman
    OK. So you are saying that the rules themselves are unfair, not that anyone is breaking or bending them. Got it.
    The rules were meant to bend when they were made up.

    To me, it looks like a case of "money talks." The sponsors who put up the dough for these affairs want what they want -- some popular home grown skaters to bring in the crowd. I guess this is the ISU's way of bowing to economic reality.
    That's ok for the GP of the host country. What about those other venues which are not the host country?

    Who are Platanova/Maksmishin? Mukhortova/Trankov? Makova/Tokarev? and what did they do to get such a privilege? I'm not sure why your are mixing finances with rules?)

    Yet another disadvantage to skaters whose national federations lack big-time clout.
    And we just suck it up. Maybe that's why Lambiel is someone special in that he had to find money to support his quest.

    Joe

  14. #74
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Posts
    7,512
    SeaniBu: "Fumie, Mao, Yu-Na, Elena and Kimmie will be shining stars. The ones to beat. - that is kinda a give me - but I think Fumie will be on the podium both times and at least one will be gold."

    About Fumie: with her, the years she did NOT do well in the GP were the years she finished higher at Worlds.

    2001-2002 GP: 4th and 7th; 5th at Olympics, 3rd at Worlds
    2002-2003 GP: 4th and 6th; 3rd at Worlds
    2003-2004 GP: 3rd and 1st, won GPF; 7th at Worlds
    2004-2005 GP: 6th and 6th; 5th at Worlds
    2005-2006 GP: 7th and 2nd; 4th at Olympics, 2nd at Worlds

    Fumie has never been a consistent early-season skater, but peaks for Worlds. The year when she pushed herself to excel in the early season was her worst showing at Worlds. So as a Fumie fan, I breathe easier when she's just so-so during the GP.

  15. #75
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Detroit, Michigan
    Posts
    28,084
    Quote Originally Posted by Joesitz
    The rules were meant to bend when they were made up.
    Yes, I can see that now. Chuckm gave some good examples.
    I'm not sure why you are mixing finances with rules?
    I think (maybe I'm wrong) that the reason for the leeway in the rules is not so much to allow the powerful federations like USA and Russia to cheat on behalf of their athletes, but rather so that each event can be assured of an entertaining cast that will appeal to the fans and television audience of that country.

    I believe that $peedy's number one goal with the Grand Prix is to make it popular and profitable -- "fair" takes a back seat.

    I think this is why he was so mad at Plushenko (and, to a lesser extent, Kwan) for skipping out on his GP assignments a couple of years ago. It hurt the bottom line, so for the next year he changed the rules accordingly.

Page 5 of 13 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •