ISU Grand Prix Assignments 2006-2007

Thanks hockeyfan for the information.

What I got is that there is not much when taking all the considerations into account what place that a skater (or a fan) can definitely say, who will be in the GP series. Of course there are the obvious but for those last 18 or so, the Feds could argue for their own purposes as I see it. Would that be a fair summation?

(I'm still in a fog as to the weight applied to all these considerations in naming a skater to the GP series - Worlds ranking; ISU ranking; PBs statistics??? There is apparently no way one can put this on a card showing how skaters rate for the GP series. That meeting they hold in Lausanne must be a humdinger with the Fed Heads arguing cause it's just not clear cut.)

Joe

chuckm said:

Keep underestimating Johnny Weir. It makes me really happy when you're wrong.

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Sorry dreamer, YOU are the one who is always proven wrong on Weir, not me, you always overestimate him, I always have a realistic forecast, I always end up right, and you always end up wrong. You underestimate Lambiel and he continualy proves you wrong, I am not the one ever proven wrong on anything in the past regarding Weir or his competitors, wishful thinking on your part.

There is a reason Lambiel has won his last 5 meetings with Weir, and Buttle his last 4 meetings. They are simply better skaters then the overrated Weir, and thus because they are better they regularly defeat him, it is only natural for the superior skater to continualy come out ahead.

You may enjoy seeing me wrong, but you dont get many opportunities. Look forward to seeing Weir miss the GP final this coming year.

Joesitz said:

Thanks hockeyfan for the information.

What I got is that there is not much when taking all the considerations into account what place that a skater (or a fan) can definitely say, who will be in the GP series. Of course there are the obvious but for those last 18 or so, the Feds could argue for their own purposes as I see it. Would that be a fair summation?

Joe

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This year's selections are very consistent, up to the discretionary picks:

1. The final 1-12 (after substitutions for retiring/non-competition skaters) got their two guaranteed spots.

2. All skaters who placed top 24 in ISU rankings and Personal Bests were guaranteed one spot and got two spots.

3. All but one Jr. Worlds and JGPF medallist (moving to seniors, except pairs, which can skate juniors and seniors) were guaranteed one spot, but got two spots. Geoffrey Varner got the one he was guaranteed.

(I forgot to mention this in my prior posts. Medalling in Jr. Worlds/JGPF is after top 24 personal bests in the hierarchy, and before the top 75, who are guaranteed nothing, and are discretionary picks.)

That covers anywhere from 60-75% of the picks, depending on the discipline and event. A good number of the usual suspects who weren't guaranteed a spot based on Worlds placement, top 24 ISU ranking, top 24 Personal best, or Jr. Worlds/JGPF medals, but are in the top 75, got one invitation, and up to a handful in each discipline, usually from the host nations, got two (Vise/Trent, Li/Xu, Wu, Fang, Duhamel, for example)

There were some notable exceptions: Berntsson, Othmann, and the Australians in Men's, Zaretskis. Munanas, Buck/Trent-Bond in Dance, McCorkell and Cantu in Ladies, although I don't know what their status is. Most of the rest can be explained by retirements, age (staying in Juniors), and possibly being put to pasture by their Federations (Russia has a number of Pairs and Dance Teams deep in the top 75 that weren't given spots.)

Very few skaters across all events and disciplines got spots without meeting at least one criteria. A few were for relatively newly formed couples, particularly where at least one had international experience (Carron/Jost, Vartmann/Just, Nari Nam/Leftheris).

Again, thank you. Still, the only certain assignments are the top 12 from the last Worlds.

Then there is a study of the ISU Rankings and the PBs statistics. There is also the consideration for medalling at Worlds in previous years. I do not know if any of these have a factor component, so, much of this is discussed in Lausanne more than tallying up the various consideration. am I correct?

(I'm not thinking of how many assignments individuals get. Just want to know those who qualify for the series.)

Frankly, I'm not making any predictions. This is a new season with new faces, new programs, and new motives. Nothing is concrete until the competition is over. For all we know Van der Perren could own Skate America, or he could come in last. You just never know.

I'm just excited about the new junior-transitors. I'm just hoping we'll get to see a lot of them do well. I'm really looking forward to Sasha Uspenski at CoC; I believe he'll do wonderfully. *crosses fingers* Maybe even air? I can only hope. It'd be nice if Griazev had a good season, with all he's been through last season, he needs a good turn this go-around. As for the rest of the participants, good luck!!!

ElFuego said:

The 2004 JW champs...And it's not like there are no available teams to take those spots (Munanas... Zaretski's... ).

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Thanks for a great post. You obviously have a lot of insider information. A very interesting read.

MM

Joesitz said:

Then there is a study of the ISU Rankings and the PBs statistics. There is also the consideration for medalling at Worlds in previous years. I do not know if any of these have a factor component, so, much of this is discussed in Lausanne more than tallying up the various consideration. am I correct?

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There are different points values for the different championships/titles. Each year is multiplied by a factor, so the results from two years ago are not given 100% value, nor are last years, but last years are more heavily weighted than two years ago.

As far as certain spots are concerned,

1-12 after substitutions are guaranteed two spots.
1-24 ISU rankings are guaranteed one spot.
1-24 Personal Best from 2005-6 are guaranteed one spot.
Jr. Worlds and JGPF medallists are guaranteed one spot.

So more than 1-12 Worlds are guaranteed assignments. It just so happens that except in one case (Geoffrey Varner), all of the above were given two.

hockeyfan228 said:

Except the rules for 2005-6 aren't based on Worlds, unless the skater places 1-12 at Worlds.


My questions are: Why did Duhamel and Volchkova get two when better-ranked Mai Asada and Carter got one? Why did Duhamel, Volchkova, Hegel, Fang, or Martinova get two when Efremenko, Pfaneuf, McCorkell, Timoshenko, Marchei, and Radeva got none? (Could be that Efremenko, Timoshenko, Marchei, and/or Radeva are no longer skating or opted out of GP; I don't know their statuses.)

.

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Duhamel got two because Phaneuf has reinjured herself.

visaliakid said:

Duhamel got two because Phaneuf has reinjured herself.

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That's very sad news about Pfaneuf. But Duhamel was not guaranteed even one spot, and there are still a handful of other skaters who were in the same ISU 75 rankings, but did not get one. And why should a slot that Pfaneuf would have been entitled to be considered for be given to another Canadian woman?

As chuckm pointed out, the last criterion is top 75 seasonal Personal Best, not top 75 ISU rankings. I've made these corrections in blue

Joesitz said:

(I'm not thinking of how many assignments individuals get. Just want to know those who qualify for the series.)

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Ladies:

1-12:
Meissner, Suguri, Sokolova
Nakano, Meier, Rochette
Hughes, Poykio, Korpi
Onda, Kostner, Asada (replaces Cohen, based on Personal Best)

Top 24 ISU ranking:
Ando, Kim, Czisny, Sawada, Liu, Sebestyen, Leung, Gedevanishvili

Top 24 Personal Best:
Taylor, Liang, Hawker

Medal at JGPF, Jr. Worlds, turning Senior:
Xu, Zukowski

Top 75 Personal Best:
Hegel, Volchkova, Duhamel, Fang, Martinova, Karademir, Nylander, Gimazetdinova, Mai Asada, C-H Kim, Paulinas, Luca

None of the above:
Calvez, Lacour, Bobillier


Men:
1-12:
Lambiel, Joubert, Lysacek
Oda, Sandhu, Buttle
Weir, Preaubert, Li
Klimkin, Davydov, Takahashi (replaces Savoie, based on Olympics)

Top 24 ISU ranking:
van der Perren, Dambier,Lindemann, Ponsero, Sawyer, Nanri, Uspenski, Kozuka, Chan, Chiper

Top 24 Personal Best:
Griazev, Verner, Mabee

Medal at JGPF, Jr. Worlds, turning Senior:
Varner, Voronov

Top 75 Personal Best:
Smith, Smalun, Wu, Dinev, Young, Contesti, Liebers, Shibata, Dobrin, Urbas, Kovalevski, Craig, Serov

None of the above:
Bradley, Gao


Pairs:
1-12:
Pang/Tong, Zhang/Zhang, Petrova/Tikhonov
Inoue/Baldwin, Marcoux/Buntin, Savchenko/Szolkowy
Dube/Davison, Obertas/Slavnov, Zagorska/Siudek
Volosozhar/Morozov, Murkhortova/Trankov, Shen/Zhao (replace Hinzmann/Parchem, based on Olympics)

Top 24 ISU rating:
Vlassov/Meekins, Putname/Wirtz, Wakamatsu/Fecteau, Pylkina/Hogner, Aganina/Knyazev, Pla/Bonheur, Handke/Wende, Moyle/Seitz, Spassova/Todorov

Top 24 Personal Best:
Langlois/Hay, Li/Xu, Vise/Trent

Medal at JGPF, Jr. Worlds:
Simakova/Tokarev

Top 75 Personal Best:
Rennik/Saks, Piatkowska/Khromin, Beloglazova/Bekh, Vartmann/Just, Bestandigova/Futas

None of the above:
Araslanova/Blanchard, Canac/Coia, Efaieva/Meshkov, Nari Nam/Leftheris


Dance:

Top 12:
Denkova/Staviyski, Dubreuil/Lauzon, Belbin/Agosto
Drobiazko/Vanagas, Delobel/Schoenfelder, Chait/Sakhnovski
Domnina/Shabalin, Faeilla/Scali, Gregory/Petukhov
Kerr/Kerr, Khoklova/Novitski, Virtue/Moir (replace Wing/Lowe based on Personal Best)


Top 24 ISU standings:
Matthews/Zavozin, Mikhailova/Sergeev, Fraser/Lukanin, Gorshkova/Tkachenko, Platanova/Maksimishin, Watanabe/Kido, Pechelat/Bourzat, Davis/White, Pratt/Giles, Beier/Beier

Top 24 Personal Best:
Cappellini/Lanotte, Grebenkova/Azrojan

Medal at JGPF, Jr. Worlds, turning senior:
No additional.

Top 75 Personal Best:
Yu/Wang, Romanovskaya/Grachev, Girard/Yaeger, Huang/Zhang, Hoffmann/Elek, Hann-McCurdy/Coreno, Kauc/Zych, Zadorozhniuk/Verbillio, Rubleva/Shefer, Navarro/Bommentre, Carron/Jost

None of the above:
None

There's a "TBA" for Japan, which could be from the Top 75 ISU standing or None of the above buckets.

Hockeyfan - Thanks a billion. I think I get it now.

Joe

Joesitz said:

Who are Platanova/Maksmishin? Mukhortova/Trankov? Makova/Tokarev? and what did they do to get such a privilege? I'm not sure why your are mixing finances with rules?)

Joe

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Is Maksimishin the skater that Muffin on this board was very taken with in terms of his looks?!

I think the ISU has been mixing finance with rules for a very long time - pandering to TV format and bringing in the QR so that it is easier to braodcast the SP and show the best skaters at the end...just one of many many rules brought in because of finances.

Ant

Joesitz said:

And don't forget the hot competition in Japan with Stephane v. v.d.Perren, Chenjian Li, Oda and Takahashi - all with easy Quads!

Joe

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I'm drawing a blank here but i thought Oda didn't even have a triple axel last year at worlds let alone a quad? And does Takahashi have as reliable a quad as stephane and kevin?

Ant

gkelly said:

Joubert competed on the GP in 2002-03. He won Skate America and the short program at Lalique but dropped to fifth in the long. He went on to win silver and Euros and place 6th at Worlds that year.

I.e., 2003-2004 was not his first GP, and it doesn't quite support the theory that he peaks later in the season.



Well, Buttle has more competition quad attempts under his belt. Neither of them has any clean ones for which COP protocols are available. I'm not sure who would have the advantage there.

Not writing anyone off...

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I thought BUttle had landed at least one clean competitin quad (or maybe 2) were they both under 6.0? I'm sure one was at a worlds competition.

Ant

Mathman said:

That will be a great competition however it turns out.

As for Weir being mad, to me, he never really got his head together last year. He didn't like his coach's first choice for LP music, then he found something he thought he did like, but it never developed into anything. Then he went back half-heartedly to something old.

People make fun of Johnny when he talks about "auras" and the like, but in his case I do think that there is a certain mind-set that he needs to achieve in order to do his best.

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This season he will skate to something borrowed and something blue!!!

(sorry i'm in a silly mood today!)

Ant

antmanb said:

I'm drawing a blank here but i thought Oda didn't even have a triple axel last year at worlds let alone a quad? And does Takahashi have as reliable a quad as stephane and kevin?

Ant

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Oda has a triple axel. At last worlds he did it twice in the QR (once in a combination), once in the SP and twice in LP (touch-down on the first try, though). He had a few failed attempts last season, but when he's on (and he's fairly consistent), I can only quote one of the commentators: "Wow. That was perfect."
He tried a quad at least twice (failed, though) in the competition in his earlier junior days, which leads me to believe that he must have landed it in practice. He still hadn't had triple axel back then. Then Barkell started coaching him and decided that for the time bein he should stop trying for quadruple and concentrate on triple axel and improving his technique.
Takahashi's quad is, sadly, quite unreliable. Which is sad, because when he's on he's a delight to watch (as proven by his performance at Skate America).

This season he will skate to something borrowed and something blue!!!

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Okami said:

Oda has a triple axel. At last worlds he did it twice in the QR (once in a combination), once in the SP and twice in LP (touch-down on the first try, though). He had a few failed attempts last season, but when he's on (and he's fairly consistent), I can only quote one of the commentators: "Wow. That was perfect."
He tried a quad at least twice (failed, though) in the competition in his earlier junior days, which leads me to believe that he must have landed it in practice. He still hadn't had triple axel back then. Then Barkell started coaching him and decided that for the time bein he should stop trying for quadruple and concentrate on triple axel and improving his technique.
Takahashi's quad is, sadly, quite unreliable. Which is sad, because when he's on he's a delight to watch (as proven by his performance at Skate America).
:

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Thanks for the correction Okami - i wasn't sure if had the triple axel or not - i was blanking on those parts of his program. He is still very young though so i'm sure he'll start getting that quad.

As for takahashi i haven't seen that performance at Skate America and was a little disappointed when i got to see his Olympic performance but mostly because of the hype surrounding him after that SA. Hopefully his consistency will get better and i'll be able to sit back and enjoy a program of his more.

Ant

slutskayafan21 said:

Sorry dreamer, YOU are the one who is always proven wrong on Weir, not me, you always overestimate him, I always have a realistic forecast, I always end up right, and you always end up wrong. You underestimate Lambiel and he continualy proves you wrong, I am not the one ever proven wrong on anything in the past regarding Weir or his competitors, wishful thinking on your part.

There is a reason Lambiel has won his last 5 meetings with Weir, and Buttle his last 4 meetings. They are simply better skaters then the overrated Weir, and thus because they are better they regularly defeat him, it is only natural for the superior skater to continualy come out ahead.

You may enjoy seeing me wrong, but you dont get many opportunities. Look forward to seeing Weir miss the GP final this coming year.

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We each have our own opinion, but I will say one thing: I don't "look forward" to skaters losing or "missing the GP final" the way you do. I simply look forward to my favorites skating well. Your brand of schadenfreud will at some point come back to bite you in the butt.

And as for being wrong, you have on so many occasions littered these boards with hogwash and gossip and have had to be corrected by a presentation of FACTS.

Takahashi had one beaut of a quad at Skate America, and quite with ease. I still think NHK is the one to watch for Mens. COR for checking out Joubert, and see if Klimkin got back his old self.

IMO, the N.American boys are fine. Just want to see if they can do two clean ones in two events.

Joe

Oda has a triple axel, but it can't be said to be reliable---he tends to miss at least one in each FS. Most of his other jumps are very consistent. He is a steady performer, but displays none of the flashes of brilliance we sometimes see from Takahashi.

Oda is consistent but still trying to find a style. Takahashi has style and charisma, but while he is a great performer, he is an erratic athlete. He can be spectacular in the SP and then bomb the FS, or vice versa. You never know how the "Dais" is going to roll.