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Thread: Relaxed Pair/Dance Citizenship Requirements

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    Relaxed Pair/Dance Citizenship Requirements

    This all started with a blurb in Saturday's San Diego Union:

    "Only one member of a pair or dance team will need to be a citizen of the country for which it competes under new regulations approved by the International Skating Union."

    That was all it said. Given the fact that I was under the impression it's been this way for quite a while (otherwise Tanith & Ben would have been staying home the last 5 years), I'm a little confused. I went on the ISU's website but all I can find is that they have approved "less restrictive citizenship requirements" for pairs and dance. Does anyone have any more info on what the new rules actually are regarding this?

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    Custom Title antmanb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JonnyCoop
    This all started with a blurb in Saturday's San Diego Union:

    "Only one member of a pair or dance team will need to be a citizen of the country for which it competes under new regulations approved by the International Skating Union."

    That was all it said. Given the fact that I was under the impression it's been this way for quite a while (otherwise Tanith & Ben would have been staying home the last 5 years), I'm a little confused. I went on the ISU's website but all I can find is that they have approved "less restrictive citizenship requirements" for pairs and dance. Does anyone have any more info on what the new rules actually are regarding this?
    I always thought the citizenship hoopla was only the IOC rules and comepting at the Olympics.

    I can't see how the rules could be relaxed anymore, unless you no longer have to sit out a year before cometing for the new country?

    Ant

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    Quote Originally Posted by antmanb

    I can't see how the rules could be relaxed anymore, unless you no longer have to sit out a year before cometing for the new country?

    Ant
    That's what I'm wondering. I'm thinking that must be it, but I can't find anything about it.

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    Before, skaters had to sit out two years before they could skate for the new country. The rule now required only one year out.

    However, the rule that the former country has to give permission hasn't changed. Daniil Barantsev, who skates in the US with his (now) wife Jennifer Wester, hasn't been allowed to skate for the US for many years now. Because he and his former partner Romaniuta won the JW championship in 2000 and 2001, Russia continues to refuse permission for him to skate for the US, even though more than two years have long since passed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by euterpe
    Before, skaters had to sit out two years before they could skate for the new country. The rule now required only one year out.
    I thought it already WAS one year -- didn't Soldatova only sit out one year before competing for Belarus? This is why I'm a little confused. I'm wondering if maybe there's no "sit out" period at all anymore.

    re. Barantsev, how vindictive can they get? Obviously he's probably not going to come back and skate for THEM, so why not let him skate for the US? I realize Russia is probably in a bit of a dither over their newfound lack of Dance depth, but come on here.

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    It was because Soldatova was able to switch countries so easily that the two-year rule was adopted. Julia had won World bronze in 1999 but didn't make the team the following year so she decided to skate for Belarusand was 20th at 2001 Worlds and 18th in 2002. When she realized that she'd made a mistake, she tried to come back to skate for Russia and came face-to-face with the two-year rule. She never did get to skate for Russia because by the time the two years was up, she was injured. Her current status is unknown.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chuckm
    It was because Soldatova was able to switch countries so easily that the two-year rule was adopted. Julia had won World bronze in 1999 but didn't make the team the following year so she decided to skate for Belarusand was 20th at 2001 Worlds and 18th in 2002. When she realized that she'd made a mistake, she tried to come back to skate for Russia and came face-to-face with the two-year rule. She never did get to skate for Russia because by the time the two years was up, she was injured. Her current status is unknown.
    AH!! OK!! Now that does clarify it, because apparently I was oblivious and didn't know there'd been a TWO year rule in place. The one-year rule would also explain, I think, why Tanith & Ben were able to compete internationally so soon after they paired up.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JonnyCoop
    I thought it already WAS one year -- didn't Soldatova only sit out one year before competing for Belarus? This is why I'm a little confused. I'm wondering if maybe there's no "sit out" period at all anymore.

    re. Barantsev, how vindictive can they get? Obviously he's probably not going to come back and skate for THEM, so why not let him skate for the US? I realize Russia is probably in a bit of a dither over their newfound lack of Dance depth, but come on here.
    Danii is probably better off on trying to get US citizenship than hoping for Russian Federation to release him. Since he's married to a US citizen, he only needs 3 years to get citizenship, but 5 years like most people. It's my understanding once he gets US citizenship, he no longer needs Russia's release.

    I wish Russia would release him, but with their lack of depth in young dancers, I can see why they're not giving the release.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JonnyCoop
    This all started with a blurb in Saturday's San Diego Union:

    "Only one member of a pair or dance team will need to be a citizen of the country for which it competes under new regulations approved by the International Skating Union."

    That was all it said. Given the fact that I was under the impression it's been this way for quite a while (otherwise Tanith & Ben would have been staying home the last 5 years), I'm a little confused. I went on the ISU's website but all I can find is that they have approved "less restrictive citizenship requirements" for pairs and dance. Does anyone have any more info on what the new rules actually are regarding this?
    I believe one of the partners can retain their citizenship and still compete in the Nationals and even some international competitions - we have a pair team that does that - he being Canadian, she being Japanese (a pairs team). They are an excellent team. However, she has no plans of becoming a Canadian citizen so there goes the 2010 games. Darn!!!

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    Wakamatsu and Fecteau, I assume?

    At least up there you have enough depth in Senior Pairs for it only to be a bummer for them not to be eligible for 2010; on THIS side of the border, we'd be on our hands and knees BEGGING her to pull a Rena Inoue....

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    Quote Originally Posted by JonnyCoop
    The one-year rule would also explain, I think, why Tanith & Ben were able to compete internationally so soon after they paired up.
    Tanith and Ben also didn't compete for a year to undergird their fundamentals. It was my impression that the rule also only applied to those skaters who had competed _internationally_ for a country. Did Tanith ever represent Canada at an international? I was not following ice dancing as closely at that time.

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    Custom Title Joesitz's Avatar
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    My question about Nationality is its importance in sharing the podium with the winner of a competition.

    I believe the competition is set up to decide who at that particular event was the 'best'? What does it really matter where this 'best' comes from?

    There are many skaters in Senior Ladies and Men who come from Japan and the USA and they will never qualify for a Worlds, yet how many of them would have done better than the 12th-20th places at any international event?

    I know, I know, I know, it's the Rules that specify Nationality.

    Joe

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    Custom Title boggartlaura's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alsace
    Did Tanith ever represent Canada at an international?
    No.

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    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joesitz
    My question about Nationality is its importance in sharing the podium with the winner of a competition.

    I believe the competition is set up to decide who at that particular event was the 'best'? What does it really matter where this 'best' comes from?

    There are many skaters in Senior Ladies and Men who come from Japan and the USA and they will never qualify for a Worlds, yet how many of them would have done better than the 12th-20th places at any international event?

    I know, I know, I know, it's the Rules that specify Nationality.
    I hear ya', Joe.

    But...I think it would require more than a change of The Rules. It would require a restructuring of the ISU and especially a re-evaluation of their whole mind set regarding the nature of international competition.

    Figure skating is (in the minds of the ISU) an Olympic sport. The Olympics are a big whoop-de-do of patriotism and national pride. The basic competitive unit is the national team, not the individual athlete. Sasha's main duty at Torino was to add to the U.S. medal count.

    This is quite different from a non-Olympic sport like tennis. The best players are invited to contest the Championships at Wimbledon, and nobody cares what countries they come from.

    The reason that the ISU will never change its tune about this is because the ISU is an organization not of individuals but of National Federations. The raison d'etre of a National Federation is to win medals in international competitions. For the National Federations voluntarily to vote themselves into irrelevence -- it's just not going to happen.

    MM

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    Custom Title antmanb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman
    I hear ya', Joe.

    But...I think it would require more than a change of The Rules. It would require a restructuring of the ISU and especially a re-evaluation of their whole mind set regarding the nature of international competition.

    Figure skating is (in the minds of the ISU) an Olympic sport. The Olympics are a big whoop-de-do of patriotism and national pride. The basic competitive unit is the national team, not the individual athlete. Sasha's main duty at Torino was to add to the U.S. medal count.

    This is quite different from a non-Olympic sport like tennis. The best players are invited to contest the Championships at Wimbledon, and nobody cares what countries they come from.

    MM
    i thought Tennis was an Olympics sport?! I could have sworn i watched one Olympic tennis competition...may have been back at the Barcelona games...was it ever an olympic sport? Perhaps i'm just losing my marbles!!!

    Ant

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