I know Alissa Czisny is considered to have great biellmann spin, to the most part--yes, but I don't know about her position. Her arm and leg creates oval like shape, not complete stretched circle created by Slutskaya's. I think Sasha's biellmann position is not complete circle either, nor Gedevanishvili's. Maybe it's preference that I see Slutskaya's biellmann position to be more beautiful, but if anyone know what is considered to be beautiful by the judges, please enlighten me!
What comprises a beautiful Biellmann spin?
- Thread starter loren
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- Joined
- Jan 22, 2004
I can't speak for the judges, but I know what I think looks good. Most importantly, get the leg up over your head, or don't bother! Not everyone can do it, and not everyone should try. The spinning leg should be straight. The free leg should be fairly straight, too. Not locked, but not bent at a 90 degree angle, either! And it should have good speed. The chest should be held up nice and high, not tilted way foward. And what makes it look most beautiful is if the skater can manage to do it without that "OMG this is KILLING ME!" look on his/her face!
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IcyBallerina
Guest
I prefer the position to be stretched vertically as much as possible. I don't think that Irina's is best at all- she looks like she is straining, and when her elbows and knee are bent as much as they are, almost no leg or back flexibility is displayed. I'm fairly certain that Alissa's is the best among current amateurs, but the Goddess of Bielmans was Lucinda Ruh.
Compare:
Compare:
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Thank you for that shot icyballareina. Lucinda Ruh's pose is ideal, what everyone should be aiming for. Irina's looks very mediocre compared to Lucinda Ruh. The difference is the free leg is straight, the body is facing forward and not down towrad the ice, and both hands grab the leg (ie shoulder flexibility).
It bugs me whenever I see a skater try to raise the leg higher by dropping the body down. Very unappealing to the eye.
It bugs me whenever I see a skater try to raise the leg higher by dropping the body down. Very unappealing to the eye.
- Joined
- Jan 22, 2004
I agree that Ruh's position is better than Slutskaya's, but to be fair, that picture of Irina's looks like she was either still getting into postition, or just coming out of it. She has a good beilman, and she is still one of the very few who can even get CLOSE to doing it on both sides.
She could be just getting into position, but the tell tale sign that Irina does not have enough flexibility in that particular photo is the fact that her other hand is grabbing the wrist and not the blade. That may be her bad side and has better flexibility on the other side.
IMO, I think it is better to do just one side and do it well than to do two sides and show off how poor your other side is in comparison to the good side.
That Lucinda Ruh's position is just breathtaking! She may have the best in the world.
IMO, I think it is better to do just one side and do it well than to do two sides and show off how poor your other side is in comparison to the good side.
That Lucinda Ruh's position is just breathtaking! She may have the best in the world.
That last picture really confirms in my mind that she does not have enough shoulder flexibility on her left side. Most people dont realize how much shoulder flexibility is involved in that position. It is not just back and legs. I know how hard it is.
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I always thought a good beillmann position resembles more of a champagne glass than a wine goblet. Thatpicture of Lucinda in the gold outfit is by far my favorite beillmann spin picture. I like when the body is closer to being parallell with the free leg, and not the ice.
here's Denise, just gorgeous!
http://www.harlick.com/img/gal/ice/deniseb.jpg
I like Emily's, but wish she'd straighten out the spinning leg:
http://www.emily-hughes.net/pic110.jpg
Alissa's:
http://www.usolympicteam.com/Alissa-Czisny-bioaction.jpg
Interesting to note: the ladies who seem to have more champagne type shapes, seem more likely to grab the blade with both hands. I wonder if this means they have longer arms or more flexibility in their backs???
Sasha grabs the balde with both, too:
http://www.sashafans.com/media/screencaptures/2006nationals/fs05.jpg
and it took all season before she really got the skate above her head, while the rest have their skates WAY above their heads. But her body is upright and her back nice and flat. I wonder if this is more due to her rumored back injuries???
here's Denise, just gorgeous!
http://www.harlick.com/img/gal/ice/deniseb.jpg
I like Emily's, but wish she'd straighten out the spinning leg:
http://www.emily-hughes.net/pic110.jpg
Alissa's:
http://www.usolympicteam.com/Alissa-Czisny-bioaction.jpg
Interesting to note: the ladies who seem to have more champagne type shapes, seem more likely to grab the blade with both hands. I wonder if this means they have longer arms or more flexibility in their backs???
Sasha grabs the balde with both, too:
http://www.sashafans.com/media/screencaptures/2006nationals/fs05.jpg
and it took all season before she really got the skate above her head, while the rest have their skates WAY above their heads. But her body is upright and her back nice and flat. I wonder if this is more due to her rumored back injuries???
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mkfs fan, to answer your question...it's back flexibility. I actually think Irina has the least back flexibility and shoulder flexibility than all the pictures posted on this thread. It is very mediocre. The best is Lucinda's and Denise's. Absolutely breathtaking!
- Joined
- Sep 27, 2003
Like I posted a while ago, here are screenshots of Sasha's biellmann at the Olys exhibition. 
It did get a little better.
http://tinypic.com/view/?pic=oi9hnb
http://tinypic.com/view/?pic=ojlfrb
It did get a little better. http://tinypic.com/view/?pic=oi9hnb
http://tinypic.com/view/?pic=ojlfrb
Agree with Denise and Lucinda having the very best of the Biellmann spins. Ideally, I think the "oval" shape formed with good back and shoulder flexibility and an upright body position IS what is desired, instead of the struggle and strain positions that so characterized Slutskaya's. The only thing I think that was to her advantage was that, for a long time, she was the only one doing them, so there was no comparison of quality. This year, Czisny, Arakawa, and eventually Cohen showed how mediocre Irina's positions have always been in the B-spin.
I think what is so remarkable about Irina's beillmann is that she can do them on both feet and generally keeps up the speed. She can do many revolutions. Some of these skaters do the minumum revs, and the speed fades out even at just that.
I didn't see Olympics exhibitions-Sasha's position is beautiful in those snapshots! So much flexibiity, super straight body and legs! Almost makes you think she could do her I-spin behind her body...I wonder why she hasn't included that position in her programs. Maybe she doesn't hold it for enough revolutions-at Worlds, didn't do that position. That particular position was done by NNN awhile ago, and she has the best version:
http://www.cliphoto.com/sports/naomi1.jpg
SO much lower back flexibility! I remember a while back, Nicks said he "gave" NNN the beillmann and Sasha the I-spin. I think Naomi's shorter in her torso, while Sasha is longer, so it probably was easier for her.
And Nathalie Krieg had some amazing spin positions.
http://www.skating.ch/images/showonice_2000/show_16.jpg
http://www.skating.ch/images/showonice_2000/show_51.jpg
I didn't see Olympics exhibitions-Sasha's position is beautiful in those snapshots! So much flexibiity, super straight body and legs! Almost makes you think she could do her I-spin behind her body...I wonder why she hasn't included that position in her programs. Maybe she doesn't hold it for enough revolutions-at Worlds, didn't do that position. That particular position was done by NNN awhile ago, and she has the best version:
http://www.cliphoto.com/sports/naomi1.jpg
SO much lower back flexibility! I remember a while back, Nicks said he "gave" NNN the beillmann and Sasha the I-spin. I think Naomi's shorter in her torso, while Sasha is longer, so it probably was easier for her.
And Nathalie Krieg had some amazing spin positions.
http://www.skating.ch/images/showonice_2000/show_16.jpg
http://www.skating.ch/images/showonice_2000/show_51.jpg
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- Joined
- Sep 27, 2003
In competitions, Sasha drops her leg to speed up her layback (a feature that increases the level) before pulling it into the biellmann. In the exhibition she went from a layback straight to the biellmann, which made it look more stable than her competition spin. Perhaps she doesn't have enough time to do the variation with a raised head in her programs. It doesn't increase the level any, but I agree, it is more impressive!MKFSfan said:
The thing I like about Czisny's spin is that she is able to accelerate WHILE in the biellman position (or maybe I'm just not watching closely enough).
The thing I don't like about biellman spins and catchfoot spirals are all the non-elite skaters who throw the move into their program and don't do it very well--not to mention the toll it must take on the back if not done properly, especially many times.
The thing I don't like about biellman spins and catchfoot spirals are all the non-elite skaters who throw the move into their program and don't do it very well--not to mention the toll it must take on the back if not done properly, especially many times.
In response to sonar-
I think it might be because when this new system was introduced, these positions were rewarded a lot higher than before, and I don't know about other countries, but in Sweden you were almost supposed to do them, even when you were just a junior. And I agree with you, badly preformed beillmans are terrible to see, and I'd rather not see them at all than see bad ones.
Sure if people want to practice them, fine, but do it at practice, and come back and put them in when they're worth the watch.
I think it might be because when this new system was introduced, these positions were rewarded a lot higher than before, and I don't know about other countries, but in Sweden you were almost supposed to do them, even when you were just a junior. And I agree with you, badly preformed beillmans are terrible to see, and I'd rather not see them at all than see bad ones.
Sure if people want to practice them, fine, but do it at practice, and come back and put them in when they're worth the watch.
- Joined
- Aug 21, 2006
I agree, Denise and Lucinda have an amazing Biellmann. I also like this spinning position, of Katlynn McNab. She's only ten years old!
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IcyBallerina
Guest
How about Caroline Zhang- this little girl starts out in a bielman...
Then lowers her leg into this!
Then lowers her leg into this!
