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Thread: Calgary Worlds revisited on ESPN2

  1. #61
    MY TVC 1 5 SeaniBu's Avatar
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    I am really surprised that more weren't impressed with Kimmies LP.

  2. #62
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    Aside from the jumps, there was nothing to be impressed about?

  3. #63
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    Along with the jumps, I thought she brought a lot of fire, spirit and youthful joie de vie. When she came down to that last 2A/2T/2Lo she had just as much energy as for her opening 3F/3T.

    This was cast into particularly sharp relief in comparison to Sasha's performance. Sasha skated like she was having a root canal.

    As for Fumie, as nice as her program was, there is just no way you can place her effort above a clean program with seven triples including two triple-triples, doubling the Salchow or not.

    JMO, of course.

    MM

  4. #64
    MY TVC 1 5 SeaniBu's Avatar
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    Was everyone aware the 2A/2T/2Lo was planned as a 2A/2T? And so alive but not over taken with giddy little, " oooohhh wow I can't belive"etc....

    It is neat when the younger skaters just let there emotions go and get all excited, but to have such life with out being "out of control happy" says allot about a person and their capabilities to me. I am impressed with Kimmie and have a feeling we all will be in the future.

    This is LIKE (not comparing) the feeling I had about MK in 94 or 95 and got to relish in that LOVE FOR MK in 98. And I know allot more than I did the\n.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman

    As for Fumie, as nice as her program was, there is just no way you can place her effort above a clean program with seven triples including two triple-triples, doubling the Salchow or not.
    I hate not being able to argue that point, but with out a 3/3 for sure there is no way

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by SeaniBu
    Was everyone aware the 2A/2T/2Lo was planned as a 2A/2T? And so alive but not over taken with giddy little, " oooohhh wow I can't believe," etc....
    I was half afraid she would really let go and do a 3Lo at the end, negating the whole element, like Slutskaya did at Moscow.

  7. #67
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    Good answers Zuranthium. Unless I see some marked improvement in stability among the N.American boys, I believe the two Europeans will be battling it out for 2007 Worlds, although it is a hometown venue for the 2 Japanese boys.

    I have to agree with you on your take of the two Europeans. Lambiel is edging out Joubert on presentation. He is more enjoyable to watch to that Vivaldi (not easy to skate to) than watching the robotic matrix.

    We'll have to wait for their music selections in the GPs to see if there will be a change in their presentations. It is risky for Joubert but he has to show he can do it without resorting to Matrix music.

    I hope they show the boys and the dance. I think they mentioned it.

    Kimmie had a very nice routine but it was all Lori Nichol and not Kimmie. It's time now for her to get with developing a Kimmie style.

    Fumie is a skater I am always happy to see win medals. She is so earnest in her skating but as a performer, she just doesn't get to me.

    Sasha has it all as we've been saying since 2000. Whatever the demons are they must go because she up against some superior jumpers which may just out wow her flexibility.

    I'm looking for an early winning performance from Evan. Not sure that will happen.

    Joe

  8. #68
    MY TVC 1 5 SeaniBu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joesitz
    Kimmie had a very nice routine but it was all Lori Nichol and not Kimmie. It's time now for her to get with developing a Kimmie style.
    That IMO is the same thing that has been the course of Fumie w/ LN.
    Quote Originally Posted by Joesitz
    Fumie is a skater I am always happy to see win medals. She is so earnest in her skating but as a performer, she just doesn't get to me.
    Hunh? I guess that is like when a guy is dating a girl and his friends just don't see why they all think she is so...No reson to dispute that, but I can't see how she doesn't crawl in anyones heart and make it warm and fuzzy place.
    Quote Originally Posted by Joesitz
    Sasha has it all as we've been saying since 2000. Whatever the demons are they must go because she up against some superior jumpers which may just out wow her flexibility.
    That is such a GREAT comment Joe! My Brother (thank goodness I am adopted) had similar issues. Maybe she needs Prozac?
    Last edited by SeaniBu; 07-13-2006 at 10:11 PM.

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman
    Along with the jumps, I thought she brought a lot of fire, spirit and youthful joie de vie. When she came down to that last 2A/2T/2Lo she had just as much energy as for her opening 3F/3T.
    Her energy was good but nothing amazing. None of the elements had particularly great speed and her ice coverage was average. She certainly doesn't have a high level of expressionism either; the music was not being interpreted onto the ice in any memorable or interesting manner.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman
    As for Fumie, as nice as her program was, there is just no way you can place her effort above a clean program with seven triples including two triple-triples, doubling the Salchow or not.
    If Fumie hadn't doubled the Salchow her total technical value would have only been 4 points behind Meissner. Considering that I think her Program Component score should have been 5 points higher than Meissner's, that would mean she wins.

  10. #70
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    In addition to the points lost on the doubled jumps, Fumie also lost 2.27 points on her flip combination, which had a very sloppy landing. In contrast, Kimmie got +GOE on ALL her jumps and beat Fumie on the TCS score by 10.61 points.

    Fumie finished 8.59 points behind Kimmie overall. Even if she hadn't doubled the salchow and did a clean flip combination, she would still have been 4+ points behind.

    Fumie wouldn't have gotten 5 points higher on the PCS for a clean FS. PCS scores don't get elevated that high unless there is a spectacular performance. Fumie doesn't skate with great expression and her non-jump elements (except for the final spin) aren't extraordinary. She might get one or two PCS points more, at the most.
    Last edited by euterpe; 07-13-2006 at 11:15 PM.

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zuranthium
    If Fumie hadn't doubled the Salchow her total technical value would have only been 4 points behind Meissner.
    Are you talking about the 2006 Worlds LP that we just saw repeated on TV? The one where Kimmie's TES was 69.47 and Fumie's was 58.86?

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by SeaniBu
    I am really surprised that more weren't impressed with Kimmies LP.
    Personally it was more like "she did it" rather than "wow, what a skate." Just my impression, though.

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman
    Are you talking about the 2006 Worlds LP that we just saw repeated on TV? The one where Kimmie's TES was 69.47 and Fumie's was 58.86?
    Yes, that one. Kimmie should not have gotten 69.47. Her Triple Flip and the second Triple Lutz were the only jumps that deserved a bonus GOE - the rest did not have enough height to qualify, imo. Her other elements certainly did not deserve any kind of positive GOE either. The spiral was wobbly, the step sequence was slow, and none of the spins were special. She actually should have got a -1 GOE on her third spin for noticably travelling and then losing her balance on the exit (in fact, she traveled at some point during ALL of her spins).

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by euterpe
    In addition to the points lost on the doubled jumps, Fumie also lost 2.27 points on her flip combination, which had a very sloppy landing. In contrast, Kimmie got +GOE on ALL her jumps and beat Fumie on the TCS score by 10.61 points.

    Fumie finished 8.59 points behind Kimmie overall. Even if she hadn't doubled the salchow and did a clean flip combination, she would still have been 4+ points behind.

    Fumie wouldn't have gotten 5 points higher on the PCS for a clean FS. PCS scores don't get elevated that high unless there is a spectacular performance. Fumie doesn't skate with great expression and her non-jump elements (except for the final spin) aren't extraordinary. She might get one or two PCS points more, at the most.
    I don't see what your point is. First of all, you're simply listing what the judges thought; I'm giving my opinion. Secondly, I never said Fumie would have received +5 PCS -- Kimmie's simply should have been that much lower.

  15. #75
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    The only problem is that this isn't ordinal judging any more. Points, points, points.

    Take away all of Kimmies GOEs, give Fumie a do-over on her doubled jump, and Kimmie is still ahead on base value for the technical elements, 63.4 to 59.2.

    As for program component scores, under the CoP they just more or less repeat the tech scores. I'm not saying that's right, its just the way it is under the New Judging System. Do a triple-triple, get a 7.5 in choreography and transitions.

    To see this, compare Kimmie's program component scores in the Olympics with Worlds. At the Olympics she got 53.54. At Worlds, 60.23. Did she suddenly develop superior skating skills and a deeper felling for the music in the intervening month?

    No, in the Olympics she flubbed both of her triple/triple combos and at Worlds she nailed them. The CoP loves that kind of "choreography and interpretation."

    MM
    Last edited by Mathman; 07-14-2006 at 06:56 AM.

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