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Thread: ISU rule changes

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    ISU rule changes

    OK, all of you CoP nerds out there, bookmark ISU Communications #1396 (I just did, LOL).

    http://www.isu.org/vsite/vfile/page/...-0-file,00.pdf

    This document summarizes the revised rules for the coming season. A couple of noteworthy changes:

    #6. Require at least one spiral position without any assistance of the hand or arm, in both the SP and the LP.

    In particular, not every spiral can be a Biellmann. This is a great rule change. Now we will see who can really attain an acceptable classic spiral position and who can't.

    #11. If a triple or quad jump is performed twice as a solo jump the second execution will be counted as a jump sequence with only one jump included.

    The change is, it used to be scored as a jump combo. Under the new rule you will still be able to do and get credit for two combos, even if you flub a combo attempt.

    Actually, the penalty for not completing the sequence is not very severe. It would be worth it to do two solo quads and blow off the Zayak rules altogether.
    Last edited by Mathman; 07-17-2006 at 08:37 PM.

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    There are also some revised guidelines about levels of difficulty for spins and spirals, some adjustments in the base values of spins, and some clarifications of the GOE criteria.

    They did not address the flutz question. The rule is still, just take off -1 to -3 GOE for a wrong take-off edge, depending on length.

    As best I can make out, they put in some rules to the effect that certain errors carry a required negative GOE, so that judges can't say that positive features outweighed the negative and end up with a 0 or positive GOE on a badly flawed element.

    (I'm not sure about this. Some GOEs are listed as, for instance, "GOE -3" and others as "-3, -GOE". I think the former means, you must give a -3 GOE for the element, and the latter means, take off -3 in the calculation of the overall GOE, but other features could also count on the positive side.)

    Here are the rules on underrotation of jumps. If it is underrotated and downgraded, the judges are supposed to take off an additional -1 to -3 off the downgraded base value.

    If it is slightly underroted but not downgraded, the judges are supposed to take off -2 from the full base value.

    This is not a change from last year, BTW. So, for instance, if the judges were following the rules on Lambiel's downgraded triple Axel, the fact that 8 of the 12 judges gave Stephane 0 or positive GOEs means that those eight not only thought that the jump was rotated enough to be called a triple, but in fact was a fully rotated triple, all 1260 degrees with no cheat whatever.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman

    In particular, not every spiral can be a Biellmann. This is a great rule change. Now we will see who can really attain an acceptable classic spiral position and who can't.

    I agree this is good rule change. Although, I am not a big fan of the Biellmann, if a skater performs one well that’s okay. However, too many skaters perform more than one in their routine. This is why I am not a big fan of the Biellmann. Thus, if I read this correctly, the number of Biellmann’s will be reduced in a skater’s routine as they find new ways to add spirals to their performances.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman
    #11. If a triple or quad jump is performed twice as a solo jump the second execution will be counted as a jump sequence with only one jump included.

    The change is, it used to be scored as a jump combo. Under the new rule you will still be able to do and get credit for two combos, even if you flub a combo attempt.

    Actually, the penalty for not completing the sequence is not very severe. It would be worth it to do two solo quads and blow off the Zayak rules altogether.
    I don't really understand what effect this rule has at all. Jump+COMBO should be the same as Jump+SEQUENCE. Both take up one of your multi-jump passes, correct? Or have I missed something?

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    don't have the technical know-how of skating but I think a combo is two jumps in a row and a sequence is when you have a jump, maybe some half turn or something and then another one...? (techies correct me if I flubbed)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman

    #6. Require at least one spiral position without any assistance of the hand or arm, in both the SP and the LP.

    In particular, not every spiral can be a Biellmann. This is a great rule change. Now we will see who can really attain an acceptable classic spiral position and who can't.
    Great. That means more poorly done fan spirals. Oh, wait-we saw PLENTY of those last year!

    It seemed to me every skater who had catchfoot/beillmann positions in their spiral sequences, also had a fan spiral to hide the fact they couldn't do a well-done, well extended spiral position without an arm/hand hold.

    Aside from the usual leg extended behind the skater and a fan spiral, what other positions do we see most of that would fit this criteria? I wonder if the no hands Y-spiral Shiz did will become popular.

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    This sounds like they are reading our threads - yah right.

    Seriously though, these sound like good changes and ones that have been discussed here.

    Quote Originally Posted by MKFSfan
    Aside from the usual leg extended behind the skater and a fan spiral, what other positions do we see most of that would fit this criteria? I wonder if the no hands Y-spiral Shiz did will become popular.
    I would also like to see "letting go of the free leg during the spiral" that is still Kidadas ne? Lets see some one emulate that move

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    Quote Originally Posted by MKFSfan
    Great. That means more poorly done fan spirals. Oh, wait-we saw PLENTY of those last year!

    It seemed to me every skater who had catchfoot/beillmann positions in their spiral sequences, also had a fan spiral to hide the fact they couldn't do a well-done, well extended spiral position without an arm/hand hold.

    Aside from the usual leg extended behind the skater and a fan spiral, what other positions do we see most of that would fit this criteria? I wonder if the no hands Y-spiral Shiz did will become popular.
    The fire hydrant, Charlotte, arabesque (both front and back), side extension to back spiral, and unassisted attitude --rarely done; Cohen used it in exhibition as an entrance to her Charlotte -- are all spirals without hand assists.

    In another change, they've downgraded telegraphs to -1, from -1 to -3, depending on severity.

    I think the impact of being a +combo vs. a +sequence is that the skater gets full credit for combos and .8 for a sequence. I think that means that a solo quad toe, for example, in which the combo wasn't completed, would receive a base of 7.2 instead of 9.

    They did not increase the value of a quad; 4T still starts at 9, with a .5 increase for each jump (S, Lo, F, Lu, A). But they did tweak the relative value of the 3Twist.

    An "optional" element is dropped from Senior Pairs and a lift is dropped from Junior Pairs in the LP Well-Balanced Program elements.

    The most interest change to me is that a jump sequence can have any number of jumps in it, as long as it maintains the rules of a sequence, and no more than two mohawks and/or three turns are done in sequence. This means that we might be able to see some of those beautiful long sequences from the 70's.
    Last edited by hockeyfan228; 07-18-2006 at 12:48 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hockeyfan228
    The fire hydrant, Charlotte, arabesque (both front and back), side extension to back spiral, and unassisted attitude --rarely done; Cohen used it in exhibition as an entrance to her Charlotte -- are all spirals without hand assists.

    You don't like the Charlotte? OK, but I am surprised.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SeaniBu
    You don't like the Charlotte? OK, but I am surprised.
    I love the Charlotte. I particularly loved Cohen's attitude entrance into it.

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    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hockeyfan228
    I think the impact of being a +combo vs. a +sequence is that the skater gets full credit for combos and .8 for a sequence. I think that means that a solo quad toe, for example, in which the combo wasn't completed, would receive a base of 7.2 instead of 9.
    Isn't it just the second jump of a sequence that gets the .8? I took this to mean that you could get full value for the second quad.

    But they did tweak the relative value of the 3T.
    They did? Isn't it still 4.0, as always?

    The most interesting change to me is that a jump sequence can have any number of jumps in it, as long as it maintains the rules of a sequence, and no more than two mohawks and/or three turns are done in sequence. This means that we might be able to see some of those beautiful long sequences from the 70's.[/QUOTE]Hmm. Get ready for 3Lo+2Lo+2Lo+2Lo+2Lo+2Lo+2Lo+2Lo+SEQ.

    Is the Charlotte a spiral or is it a moves-in-the-field element? Do skaters do a Charlotte on an edge or on the flat? I don't think I have ever seen a change of edge Charlotte, or even one done in an arc.

    MM

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman
    Here are the rules on underrotation of jumps. If it is underrotated and downgraded, the judges are supposed to take off an additional -1 to -3 off the downgraded base value.
    I don't like this. If you go for a Triple Toe and do 2.5 revolutions, why should you get less credit than a regular Double Toe??? If anything, you should get a small BONUS.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MKFSfan
    I wonder if the no hands Y-spiral Shiz did will become popular.
    Quote Originally Posted by Seanibu
    I would also like to see "letting go of the free leg during the spiral" that is still Kidadas ne? Lets see some one emulate that move.
    Yeah, I doubt if that will become popluar, for the simple reason that no one can do it.

    But that starts out holding the leg, so I don't know how that would be classified.

    Now if someone could raise their leg to that position unassisted...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman
    This means that we might be able to see some of those beautiful long sequences from the 70's. Hmm. Get ready for 3Lo+2Lo+2Lo+2Lo+2Lo+2Lo+2Lo+2Lo+SEQ.
    If you aren't taking any steps inbetween the jumps, I think that should still count as a combination.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zuranthium
    I don't like this. If you go for a Triple Toe and do 2.5 revolutions, why should you get less credit than a regular Double Toe??? If anything, you should get a small BONUS.
    Yeah, that's kind of strange. This is not a new rule, BTW, that's how it has always been.

    The way it was explained to me, if you do 2.5 revolutions on a double, that means you have a severe overrotation, so you should be marked down for it. (Plus, your landing is going to be wonky if your blade isn't all the way around, I would think).

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