View Poll Results: Who should Sasha have stayed with?

Voters
76. You may not vote on this poll
  • John Nicks

    35 46.05%
  • Tatiana Tarasova

    32 42.11%
  • Robin Wagner

    6 7.89%
  • Other coach

    3 3.95%
Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 41

Thread: Who should Sasha have stayed with?

Hybrid View

  1. #1
    riverflows
    Guest

    Who should Sasha have stayed with?

    Inspired by a comment in this thread.

    Which coach should Sasha have stayed with for the best long-term success? Was it a mistake to switch from one coach to the other or one coach back to another?
    Last edited by riverflows; 07-20-2006 at 11:54 PM.

  2. #2
    In my heart, I'm actually Canadian....
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Seattle at last!!!
    Posts
    2,884
    Definitely Mr. Nicks. Near as I can tell, the detours to work with Wagner and Tarasova were ultimately pointless; and Wagner didn't help matters by taking a well-choreographed program and making a total mess of it.

  3. #3
    Medalist
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Louisville, KY
    Posts
    96
    I liked Sasha's skating the most under Tarasova.

  4. #4
    Down With It
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    13,553
    Quote Originally Posted by JonnyCoop
    Near as I can tell, the detours to work with Wagner and Tarasova were ultimately pointless
    Perhaps, but she may have learned other things that she ultimately might not have had she stayed with one coach. Now, whether it contributed to her success (or lack of it, depending on how you look at things), only she knows.

  5. #5
    MY TVC 1 5 SeaniBu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Watching the Wheels
    Posts
    4,984
    Quote Originally Posted by Red Dog
    Perhaps.... only she knows.
    I mean this respectfully RD, I don't think she does. And Joesitz was on with the "demons" comment. I can only speculate what he meant, and I don't chance at putting words in his mouth, but that is something I feel fit what I saw every LP (different face in the SPs) she skated out and took the applause - yet I have only payed really close attention to her for 3 years I would say. Just a different look about her every time but the "soup challenge" in Dec. 05 that I saw / noticed. JMO

  6. #6
    In my heart, I'm actually Canadian....
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Seattle at last!!!
    Posts
    2,884
    Quote Originally Posted by Red Dog
    Perhaps, but she may have learned other things that she ultimately might not have had she stayed with one coach. Now, whether it contributed to her success (or lack of it, depending on how you look at things), only she knows.
    Well, perhaps, but has she seemed to have APPLIED any of these other things she may have learned?

    This is going to sound like a bash, and it's not intended as such, but IMHO Sasha has probably evolved LESS as a skater or performer in the last 6 years, since her Senior Nats debut in 2000, than most other skaters, any category, in that same time period. Have we seen Sasha do anything different than the same basic thing she was doing in 2000? I personally have not, but if anyone else has, I welcome them pointing it out. I personally find nothing wrong with her skating, either then or now, but if she's learned "other things" I'm hard pressed to try and come up with what they might be.

  7. #7
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Helsinki, Finland
    Posts
    3,573
    I voted for other coach, but don´t know who that might be. Maybe Callaghan would be good for her jumping?

    Mr. Nicks is a great coach and has brought Sasha as far as it is possible under him. Now Sasha needs a technical coach.

    About Tarasova, I never understood the reason for Sasha to select her as a coach. As a choreographer yes, but definetely not as a coach. Sasha did not need more artistry, she had it already. What she needed was a strong jumping coach and of course great choreography.

  8. #8
    In my heart, I'm actually Canadian....
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Seattle at last!!!
    Posts
    2,884
    I was kinda thinking Callaghan, too, but I think Sasha might bristle being coached by that mucfh of a control freak. Then again, he did wonders with Bobek..

  9. #9
    Custom Title Joesitz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    New York City
    Posts
    20,185
    Quote Originally Posted by JonnyCoop
    Definitely Mr. Nicks. Near as I can tell, the detours to work with Wagner and Tarasova were ultimately pointless; and Wagner didn't help matters by taking a well-choreographed program and making a total mess of it.
    How easily they forget. TT's Swan Lake got silver at Nats. Wagner's got lst in the QR at Worlds. Those are facts

    I can not understand why fans insist that Sasha's problems are because of the coaches and choreographers and not hers personally..

    To me, the problem lies not in the coaches but in Sasha herself. Am I the only one to believe this (except Peggy)??

    Joe

  10. #10
    In my heart, I'm actually Canadian....
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Seattle at last!!!
    Posts
    2,884
    Quote Originally Posted by Joesitz
    How easily they forget. TT's Swan Lake got silver at Nats. Wagner's got lst in the QR at Worlds. Those are facts


    Joe
    Just because it got results doesn't make it a better program. Plenty of mish-mash messes get scored highly and end up on podiums. As I recall, after the unveiling of "the great rework", the responses on this board to it were for the most part, extremely negative.

    And IMHO Qualifying Round results are only relevant if someone really tanks in them. After all, Mikkeline Kierkgaard was 2nd in Worlds QR in 2000 -- didn't help her much in the long run, tho.

  11. #11
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Helsinki, Finland
    Posts
    3,573
    Quote Originally Posted by Joesitz
    I can not understand why fans insist that Sasha's problems are because of the coaches and choreographers and not hers personally..

    To me, the problem lies not in the coaches but in Sasha herself. Am I the only one to believe this (except Peggy)??

    Joe
    Well, I agree that a lot of the problem lies in Sasha herself, but not everything. One also needs a coach that is able to fix some parts in that problem. As I mentioned above, Tarasova was a wrong choice, because Sasha needed help in her jumping and not in artistry. I also believe that Sasha needs discipline in her work. If Callaghan managed something with a big problem child like Bobek, I´d expect him manage to do wonders with Sasha.
    Last edited by Jaana; 07-23-2006 at 12:03 AM.

  12. #12
    Forum translator Ptichka's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Boston, MA
    Posts
    4,430
    Quote Originally Posted by Jaana
    One also needs a coach that is able to fix some parts in that problem. As I mentioned above, Tarasova was a wrong choice, because Sasha needed help in her jumping and not in artistry. I also believe that Sasha needs discipline in her work. If Callaghan managed something with a big problem child like Bobek, I´d expect him manage to do wonders with Sasha.
    Well, Kulik did master the quad under Tarasova's direction. I see a lot of similarity between Sasha and Ilya, and I think that was largely the change she was going for.

    Having said all that, I do have to say that I think the choice of TT was largely Galina's and not Sasha's.

  13. #13
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Helsinki, Finland
    Posts
    3,573
    Quote Originally Posted by Ptichka
    Well, Kulik did master the quad under Tarasova's direction. I see a lot of similarity between Sasha and Ilya, and I think that was largely the change she was going for.
    I would not say that it was Tarasova who tought Ilia the quad. He kind of mastered it before that time, although not doing it in competitions. Besides, I have understood that it was some technical expert that helped Ilia with the quad in 1997-1998 season?

    Ilia skated great under Kudriatshev as he won the gold in JWC and EC in season 1994-1995. Also Ilia skated a wonderful faultless freeskate in Centennial on Ice 1996 and won with almost as good performance a silver medal in Worlds 1996. All that happened before Tarasova.

    As Ilia started to train under Tarasova he did have a beautiful freeskate but not really suitable for male singles skating. Lots of skating fans called it an ice dance programme where jumps were added. It was practically unskateable, a way too busy programme. Tarasova did not have enough experience with male singles skating in that time. That error was fortunately corrected for the Olympic season´s freeskate programme.
    Last edited by Jaana; 07-28-2006 at 11:35 PM.

  14. #14
    Gadfly and Bon Vivant Mafke's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    1,389
    Quote Originally Posted by Joesitz

    To me, the problem lies not in the coaches but in Sasha herself. Am I the only one to believe this (except Peggy)??
    I'm not sure what 'the problem' is beyond the idea that Cohen's ambitions may be a lot stronger than her abilities and/or work ethic. Nothing to do about the first and for the second only a tyrant with some power over her (to keep her from bolting to easier pastures) would do any good.

    But then I never bought into the Sasha-Hype and I think she's done about as well as I expected. I never looked at her and thought "best ever!", I thought "probable world medalist, probably more than once and maybe world champion with a little luck".

  15. #15
    Custom Title Joesitz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    New York City
    Posts
    20,185
    I really thought Sasha was special when I first saw her in that Cleveland Nats. However, after taking a year off to heal her back she came back to Skate America with a Quad.... well may be a popped double salchow. I then thought of her as being feisty which I liked, but that didn't lead to anything special in 2002 Olys. 03, 04, 05 did not bring in the gold. She still was a very excellent skater through those years, but she did not get her dreams fulfilled.

    I can not blame that on any of the coaches or choreographers. JMO.

    Joe

Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •